February 28, 2008
— Ace The odd thing is that 53% also say we should pull troops out. Huh?
And even a trendy celebripundit seems in favor of continuing the Iraq mission on humanitarian grounds.
A Jacksonian meanwhile compares Iraq's political progress to the US Congress', and finds the Democratic controlled Congress wanting.
Posted by: johnd01 at February 28, 2008 07:04 PM (Jc6sH)
Posted by: ace at February 28, 2008 07:11 PM (SXBHu)
Posted by: Vercingetorix at February 28, 2008 07:30 PM (JvmRx)
Posted by: moviegique at February 28, 2008 07:39 PM (1y5Vr)
My guess as to the logic here is that some may feel that our troops have done an excellent job by any historical standard (and -by- such a standard, they really really have, casualties have been incredibly low for the ground gained), and that if the Iraqis aren't ready to step up and take charge of their own security by now or at least in the near future, they never will be.
I can appreciate that view. I think maybe a year or so more might be productive, but after that it may just be counterproductive, in that it may lead them to just getting lazy and reliant on our troops. We're going to have to cut the cord sometime, and starting it when Al Qaeda's as apparently wounded as they are now and in the midst of the surge's success may be the best timing to do it.
I say this as someone who's never stopped supporting the war effort, btw. I'm just thinking the job may have entered the realm of diminishing returns and it's time to pull back a bit and see how they do on their own.
I suppose the real determinant here would be how the reconstruction/infrastructure development is going. If another year or two with minimal insurgency would make a big difference in their getting their electricity and other infrastructure up to somewhat modern standards, then that'd be worth it, but we need to make sure we don't overstay and make them as complacent and reliant on us as most of Europe is.
Posted by: Qwinn at February 28, 2008 07:40 PM (MN787)
I also don't think the war was "mishandled" as McCain likes to put it over the last several years. We could've done "the surge" four years ago, and it could easily have been a colossal failure, in fact I think it would've been. What changed in those intervening years is that the Iraqis grew to trust that we really didn't want to occupy them, and they saw how utterly evil the insurgents/Al Qaeda were. I don't think any sort of surge could've worked without that popular sentiment and cooperation in fingering the thugs, and I don't think anything could've brought about that sentiment except time. That we were able to create that sentiment in only three or four years is actually an amazing success IMO, but of course no one looks at it that way, it's all because we added 20,000 troops and if we'd added them in 2004 there'd never have been a significant insurgency. I think that's pretty ridiculously simplistic, but hey, what do I know. *shrug*
Posted by: Qwinn at February 28, 2008 07:45 PM (MN787)
As long as we have Angelina Jolie's breasts, God is on our side.
God Wills Them!
...though apparently not this blog. One lil CPAC award and 20 million hits and suddenly ace has becoming a high-rolling ewok, pulled between coming up with excuses not to blog and tearing the AoSHQ family apart; Jack M. is no where to be seen since ace pulled a "cheney" and sends him to a "non-disclosed location" for security reasons, lauraw rumored to have had complications with a sex change operation, and malor just happens to have a brain-injuring car wreck before CPAC happens.
Posted by: TheEJS at February 28, 2008 08:05 PM (Fi2LQ)
Posted by: Bart at February 28, 2008 08:09 PM (B9jnT)
Yep. Not the size of the wave, but the motion of the ocean.
Posted by: Vercingetorix at February 28, 2008 08:20 PM (JvmRx)
The public has that attitude because the dems and the media have succeeded in pounding home the message that this war is costing too much money and that money can be better spent at home. I can't say I disagree with that line of thinking.
Posted by: perineum_pirate at February 28, 2008 08:34 PM (xhH8f)
It appears the euroweenie court of human rights has denied the UK the right to deport terrorists because their country of origin might torture them. So, if a terrorist enters your country illegally, you can't get rid of them. Eventually, they won't even be able to keep them in custody but instead will have to release them and give them housing and other subsidies. Amazing, isn't it?
Posted by: Rinnie at February 29, 2008 12:00 AM (Qkhoc)
Posted by: ricpic at February 29, 2008 02:39 AM (o03rx)
Posted by: Eeyore's Swinging Sack at February 29, 2008 03:47 AM (I6QiV)
I was so confused when I didn't see the "NSFW" link or "below the fold".
Posted by: Grimaldi at February 29, 2008 05:06 AM (lduP/)
Nicely argued. Don't discount the increase in troops as well. Remember that almost all of the added troops were on the sharp end of the stick. They, therefore, constituted a significant additional presence that was, I think, crucial to the success of the surge. There's no question, though, that a simple increase of boots on the ground without a change in ROEs and other policies would have resulted in the success we're seeing.
Posted by: WisdomLover at February 29, 2008 05:10 AM (YGMaD)
Posted by: WisdomLover at February 29, 2008 05:14 AM (YGMaD)
Follow us, guys. We shall point the way. Though we may tremble and jiggle occasionally, we remain firm in our determination.
Posted by: Scarlett Johanson's Breasts at February 29, 2008 05:21 AM (FgxdU)
Though we may tremble and jiggle occasionally, we remain firm in our determination.
Posted by: kramer at February 29, 2008 05:41 AM (evdj2)
It is entirely unreasonable to bring up this story without an obligatory picture of Angelina Jolie's breasts, whether they point south or not.
Who are we to believe?
You, Ace, or our own lyin' eyes?
I hope you aren't becoming a decider, Ace!
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Wait, isn't that... aren't they supposed to... I mean, don't they go on the front? Pretty sure they're supposed to be on the front, yes? Oh dear, this is very troubling.
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