May 30, 2008

Battlestar Galactica: Sine Qua Non Discussion Thread
— Gabriel Malor

Will Gaeta keep singing? Is Hera going to keep creeping me out? How stupid was it to plug in the hybrid, President Mudda-chuh-chuh? Most importantly, when is Three coming back?

Something to stimulate the imagination under the fold.

Spoiler Policy: Anything from the miniseries and the show up to and including tonight's episode is fair game; no need to warn or in some way obscure text for anything that comes from that material. However, anything you may have heard about future episodes should be kept to yourself. Thanks.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 02:33 PM | Comments (32)
Post contains 102 words, total size 1 kb.


Watched the first few minutes on SciFi today (10 minute preview at the top of every hour).  No clues about what happened to Rosalind, Baltar etc.  Otherwise it is a continuation of the chaos from the end of last week.

Anybody got any ideas about where the baseship jumped to?  Is the hybrid on the basestar a "rebel" like the other toasters?  If she is how does that work?  I know the hybrids are "different", but I have never been clear on how they fit in with the rest of the cylons.

Posted by: CavMedic at May 30, 2008 02:46 PM (rYFmu)

2 The one thing they've been doing with this show that pisses me off to no end is killing off whichever person/toaster that has the answer to the question in immediate need of answering. It's a dodge that is far too common.

Posted by: Will at May 30, 2008 02:47 PM (WnBa/)

3 Ha ha! I already downloaded the SkyOne torrent of this episode earlier this week, so I'm ahead of all of you morons. What a show!

Here's a spoiler:

Colonel Tigh shows up naked. With a belt sander.

Ha ha!

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 30, 2008 02:53 PM (jyo/c)

Posted by: Mortis at May 30, 2008 03:25 PM (M4fCi)

5 My prediction: Before the Resurrection Hub is destroyed, Hera will respawn there.  After it's disabled, she'll be killed and successfully replaced by Boomer...until Caprica Six unmasks her. 

I think Admiral Cain is the twelfth Cylon.

Posted by: HokiePundit at May 30, 2008 03:25 PM (xBDeE)

6 Sorry, forgot:

The reason I think Cain is #12 goes back to Razor.  The Cylons were busy attacking Tauron and the other colonies until...a Centurion found Cain, scanned her, and...stopped everything.  The same thing happened with Anders in the season opener.

Posted by: HokiePundit at May 30, 2008 03:28 PM (xBDeE)

7 Hokie, when the fuck did that happen in Razor?  Or are you just bullshitting?

My guess tonight:  Tigh's dick can still work after all these years and knocked Six up the ass.  That's what Doc Cottle finds and tells Adama.

Posted by: EC at May 30, 2008 03:57 PM (j2Tjh)


In tonight's episode the twelfth Cylon is revealed to be Dirk Benedict.

Actually, tonight's episode is fabulous.


Posted by: George Turner at May 30, 2008 04:12 PM (ruyGu)


Actually, it was a pretty awful episode...a symptom of the writers strike, looks like...almost like they just cut the actors loose to improvise..."just act out your impression of your character"...left a bad taste in my mouth. 

They brought back Romo Lambkin, but his part was so frakked up, that they should have left him in cold storage...that guy practically saved Season 3

I've lost a great deal of respect for Ronald D. Moore and David Eick...they'd better put some effort into saving their asses for their legacy....

Posted by: Davey from Canada at May 30, 2008 04:37 PM (l0+8L)

10 The strike started after they shot the cliffhanger that will happen in a couple weeks and the resolution. I didn't think the ep sucked, however, like a lot of the ones from this season, I'll have to mull it over a bit before I can say definitively one way or another. Didn't really care for the huge left turn with Romo and his cat, but image of Adama alone, determined to find the others was pretty powerful.

Posted by: Geoff at May 30, 2008 04:51 PM (6vmxC)

11 So... Tigh impregnated Six. The child is NOT a hybrid. It is a Cylon. But it is NOT one of the previously existing models. It is a NEW model. There's our 12, right there.

Posted by: Anachronda at May 30, 2008 05:35 PM (xIUG5)

12 But what about the giant COCK!?

Posted by: Tom at May 30, 2008 05:38 PM (jyo/c)

13 Lee Adama is looking down the barrel of a gun?

What.  The.  Frak?!!!

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at May 30, 2008 05:44 PM (5yrKo)


"but you don't know you're one of them?"


aw HELL nah.

Posted by: apotheosis at May 30, 2008 05:58 PM (xWk3U)

15 Geoff: quit apologizing for was what it was...a hastily thrown together piece of crap...

Posted by: Davey from Canada at May 30, 2008 06:11 PM (l0+8L)

16 EC,

Go to the part where little Cain and her sister are on Tauron during the first Cylon War.  In the shipping container, a Centurion finds Cain, whips out his gun, scans her, and then stops.  One possible reason is that the war is over.  Another is that, just like with Anders, the Cylon received an unwitting cue which it transmitted to Cylon command.  We're not given enough context to know if this happened at precisely the same time as Adama's scenes in the first Cylon War.

Just a theory, though.

Posted by: HokiePundit at May 30, 2008 07:43 PM (xBDeE)

17 There's our 12, right there.

Good call, maybe.

Why the heck can't the original six tell when they are in the presence of the five (or fucking one), but a raider can?

Did I miss something?

Anyway, I liked tonight's episode. Almost felt like the first season. But, I been drinkin'

Posted by: mesablue at May 30, 2008 09:29 PM (5yNaE)

18 And yes, they were never supposed to know.

But still. 

There's gotta be a secret handshake, at the very least. ;-)

Posted by: mesablue at May 30, 2008 09:31 PM (5yNaE)





Posted by: Mortis at May 31, 2008 02:43 AM (M4fCi)

20 I thought this particular episode sucked air. Who didn't know that Lee Adama would be the President? Lambkin and the cat was fucked up and a waste of time. Adama was his usual arrogant I do what I want assholeness. Six and Tigh, oh hell no. The brawl between Adama and Tigh was about the only good part.

Posted by: laddy at May 31, 2008 03:36 AM (huFY9)

21 OT: Anyone seen the old Babylon 5 series recently? Fry's has a great sale on seasons 1-5. I remember liking it but I also remember it had a fair amount of liberal message tax levied on it. Anyway, if you've seen it lately did the liberal nonsense just suck the life out of it or was it still enjoyable?

Posted by: rinseandspit at May 31, 2008 04:44 AM (S4WzI)


B5 began to tank in late season three, when the real purpose of the Shadows was underwhelming.  Politically, season five was a real mess: the lesson was pure liberalism - that good intentioned people can make up the rules as they go along, lie, cheat, steal, as long as they believe it's for other people's own good.  This was basically Delenn's whole role on the show, and Sheridan became just like her.  There were chilling moments in season five - criminals screaming "I got rights" as Rangers beat them up without due process, Delenn's beaming that the Rangers answered only to her, Sheridan's lying about the whole purpose and limited role of the Rangers as info gatherers, only to have the other worlds find out that they'd signed away their sovereignty.  These were practically the words of Margaret Thatcher.

Religiously, it also devolved into crap.  Everyone turned into Delenn.  Whenever I think of religion on Babylon 5, I think of Chesterton's line that Christianity and Buddhism are basically the same, especially Buddhism.  On B5, all good politics was the Enlightened Ruler making things up as he went along, and all religions were Buddhism.  In the real world, Delenn's decisions would have led to disaster, but she was written as if she were divinely protected (or as if JMS were in love with her) - whatever she did would turn out with hindsight to be the right choice.

Also, JMS had a tendency to descend into tropes.  By Thirdspace, we'd made a game out of counting them.  Sheridan nukes, Delenn mutters, the Evil Goons, the archaeologist, "the Universe" with a capital U, "not a problem", the Evil Corporation, the Ethnic Intolerance, etc.  There were some plot elements (like the whole Edgars thing) which simply didn't make sense unless you understood JMS' political prejudices.  This is a man who thought that Nightwatch with their black arms bands and talk about keeping earth pure was subtle and would be compelling and tempting for "half his audience."  This man once told me in an email that Bob Dole was a right-wing fanatic.  Dole's been accused of many things, but ye gods...

In short, Babylon 5, especially the later seasons were JMS was writing everything, is looking very dated.  In all fairness, I should point out that the recent DVD release was very good.  An hour of writing every few years obviously suits the man.

Posted by: gn at May 31, 2008 05:19 AM (YESgm)


B5 seasons 2-4 were just fine.


1 was awkward and 5 was crap.  Except for Sleeping in the Light.

Posted by: apotheosis at May 31, 2008 05:35 AM (xWk3U)

24 gn and apothesis, Thanks. I remember B5 better now.

Posted by: rinseandspit at May 31, 2008 07:51 AM (S4WzI)

25 WTF was the point of the whole episode? The only plot advancement that came out of it was Lee being made President (as if we didn't see that coming back in Season 2), and the Doc letting Adama know that the 6 was pregnant. I watched it twice, and still couldn't figure out what all was supposed to be going on.

Posted by: Smokey Behr at May 31, 2008 09:52 AM (jqPsw)

26 Nice picture. I'll be in my bunk. With them.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at May 31, 2008 03:00 PM (1hM1d)


I think most people are thinking in terms of plot, not show creation.  Presumably, the next ep is entirely the "flipside".  There's probably some contractual reason Adama has to be in every episode, and so a story reason is required for him to be "found" by the others.

The thing about the cat was very confusing.  It went by fast, and I still have no idea who killed the cat or why, nor exactly what happened with his family - he could have got off the shuttle but didn't, but fortunately had his wife's cat with him??  It was very hurried.  Lee may have read his bio, but we haven't.

Only on a second viewing did I really understand the cat's appearances.  One problem this show is having lately is that Everybody hallucinates and has mystical experiences.  We can never trust our own eyes any longer.  We never know if anything we're seeing is real.  And a rational explanation for head-six and head-Baltar are looking less and less likely in that light.

Posted by: gn at June 01, 2008 07:31 AM (YESgm)

28 I'm disappointed in the writing. Why would Tom step aside for Lee when the only reason he couldn't assume the presidency was Adama's refusal to accept it?

And the whole Sine Qua Non thing - I found it jarring as it's a Latin phrase.  What exactly are Fleet officers doing learning Latin?   No plausible explanation, just some write in love with the phrase deciding to inject it into the miniseries.

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