April 30, 2015

April 30, 1975 - The Day Saigon Fell
— Dave in Texas

40 years ago today the "People's" Army of Vietnam and their VC commie guerrilla pals overran Saigon. This marked the end of organized defense by South Vietnam and created the paradise on earth that is The Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

First, some iconic photos:

Saigon-hubert-van-es.jpg

CIA station evacuation

vietnam030-sjpg_950_2000_0_75_0_50_50.jpg

Airlift

tossing it.jpg

Epilogue

At the end, US Forces evacuated 135,000 Vietnamese. The rest were left to the camps and brutality.

Andy tipped me to a PBS documentary, "Last Days in Vietnam". Trailer and clip below the fold. OH. He also explains the reason they're tossing that Huey off the deck of the USS Kirk - making room for the next bird to land.

[Update - Andy] This documentary is outstanding. Highly recommended.


"We were the last eleven"

Posted by: Dave in Texas at 01:33 PM | Comments (344)
Post contains 136 words, total size 2 kb.

1 holy tiny text batman

Posted by: the real ch3 at April 30, 2015 12:07 PM (IG5KL)

2 Big story for such a small space..

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 30, 2015 12:07 PM (Bn6aD)

3 I'm shrinking!


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at April 30, 2015 12:08 PM (V70Uh)

4 The center cannot hold. Eventually.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at April 30, 2015 12:08 PM (DQZLr)

5 Awww, it's AtC sized

Posted by: running away, looking over shoulder for Ravage at April 30, 2015 12:08 PM (1FyZ2)

6 I feel so tall today.

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 12:09 PM (ahBY0)

7 Earlier aoshq was fat shaming me with its margins, now its skinny shaming me! I FEEL UNSAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 12:09 PM (AkOaV)

8 Awww, it's AtC sized Posted by: running away, looking over shoulder for Ravage at April 30, 2015 05:08 PM "Fun sized".

Posted by: RedMindBlueState[/i] at April 30, 2015 12:09 PM (h4vJk)

9 omg, I feel HUGE

Posted by: Moderate Salami at April 30, 2015 12:10 PM (/Ho8c)

10 Yikes talk about the FINE print

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 12:10 PM (CwVOr)

11 The text box was cold!!!

Posted by: George Costanza at April 30, 2015 12:10 PM (1FyZ2)

12 Formatting hijinks here are totally the best.

This place rox.

Posted by: Moderate Salami at April 30, 2015 12:11 PM (/Ho8c)

13 Hey, man? Do you wanna get small???

Posted by: [/i][/b]andycanuck[/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 12:11 PM (kivUY)

14 If ace were a cat. http://www.all4humor.com/images/files/Small%20Face%20Cat.jpg

Posted by: Serious Cat at April 30, 2015 12:11 PM (xkSSa)

15 You would think that the world would learn. When the U.S. tells you that we'll be there for you, that we'll stand by your side and fight for what's right, you can bet your ass that at some point we'll pick up and leave. You're on your own, chump.

Posted by: jwest at April 30, 2015 12:11 PM (9ZZd+)

16 You look up best places to retire Vietnam makes a fair number of top ten lists.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 30, 2015 12:11 PM (sgrzZ)

17 AndyCanuck, go ask Alice when she's six feet tall.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 12:11 PM (CwVOr)

18 Fuck the Democrats, the "New left", the Communists in Vietnam, China and the Soviet Union and the asshole Republicans who refused to accept the Democrats were in conclave with Moscow.


Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:11 PM (/4AZU)

19 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 30, 2015 12:11 PM (kff5f)

20 No, man!!! No!!! Everything is GIANT NOW!!!

Posted by: [/i][/b]andycanuck[/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 12:12 PM (kivUY)

21 Burn it down. Scatter the stones. Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 30, 2015 12:12 PM (kff5f)

22 You look up best places to retire Vietnam makes a fair number of top ten lists.

Me love you retiree long time.

Posted by: Vietnam at April 30, 2015 12:12 PM (/Ho8c)

23 It's easy to forget that our history of betraying allies when the going gets tough goes back at least 40 years.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 30, 2015 12:12 PM (kff5f)

24 16 Posted by: wrg500 at April 30, 2015 05:11 PM (sgrzZ)

We're contemplating harboring there if we ever do the "live-aboard" lifestyle...

Cam Rahn Bay is a party town.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:13 PM (/4AZU)

25 AndyCanuck, go ask Alice when she's six feet tall. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 05:11 PM (CwVOr) ********************* I think you mean 10 feet.

Posted by: Grace Slick at April 30, 2015 12:13 PM (xkSSa)

26 Vietnam as retirement location?  Well the Russians are back at Cam Rahn Bay.  And the PRC is sinking Vietnamese fishing boats.  Yeah retire to a potential war zone.  I think I will pass.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 12:13 PM (CwVOr)

27 Even the Red Queen Empress Alex is TALL!!!

Posted by: [/i][/b]andycanuck[/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 12:14 PM (kivUY)

28 23 Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 30, 2015 05:12 PM (kff5f)

The United States *was* a two headed monster one in thrall to our enemy....

now we are a bipolar one headed monster.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:14 PM (/4AZU)

29 This is why they won't let me use tags. I'm a loser

Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 30, 2015 12:14 PM (WvXvd)

30 I remember the post-Vietnam residue of ennui, despair, and decay.   I really, REALLY, have no desire to repeat it. 


Dems, on the other hand......

Posted by: pep at April 30, 2015 12:14 PM (LAe3v)

31 This is why they won't let me use tags. Better not remove any from your furniture either, bub.

Posted by: Mattress Police at April 30, 2015 12:15 PM (9Z8lH)

32 26 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 05:13 PM (CwVOr)

as opposed to Baltimore, St Louis, Detroit...the world's a war zone ma'am...

choose your allies and run for cover if/when the storm comes.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:15 PM (/4AZU)

33 Its not that the US per se betrayed South Vietnam, it was a Democrat Congress who refused to supply that country with the material it needed in its darkest hour.  Thus neutering an already politically weak Jerry Ford as President.

Democrats have been betraying US interests since the Copperheads.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 12:16 PM (CwVOr)

34 I knew I shouldn't have taken those Flintstone's Vitamins that mother gave me today.

Posted by: [/i][/b]andycanuck[/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 12:16 PM (kivUY)

35 I began working as a Lutheran church volunteer, helping to resettle the Vietnamese refugees who came out in 1975. It was an interesting experience, and one which moved me to volunteer for the Air Force because of it. I can never forget the faces of the people crammed onto tiny boats, or into overcrowded helicopters, heading out beyond the territorial waters, hoping and trusting that they would be picked up. I can't forget the stories that some of the refugees I worked with told me afterwards.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at April 30, 2015 12:17 PM (95iDF)

36 Vietnam
Iraq
Afghanistan

Defeats snatched from the jaws of victory by your patriotic democrat party.


Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at April 30, 2015 12:17 PM (TV9BR)

37 Its not that the US per se betrayed South Vietnam So it's not that the US betrayed South Vietnam technically, just for all practical purposes.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 30, 2015 12:18 PM (kff5f)

38 DiT, do you have any of the T-62's smashing open the gates of ?? I thought it was ridiculous that the NVA Army with several ARMORED DIVISIONS was referred to as a "Peasant Army."

Posted by: rd at April 30, 2015 12:18 PM (NvD/W)

39 This is all about ATC..., isn't it?

Posted by: Lamely trying to hide identity... at April 30, 2015 12:18 PM (n6Nt0)

40 35 Posted by: Sgt. Mom at April 30, 2015 05:17 PM (95iDF)

I helped Vietnamese boat folk study for the US Citizenship test back when it meant something...

https://youtu.be/Rc2wDyMbh0o

Hickock 45 reviews the Chiappa Rhino

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:19 PM (/4AZU)

41 go ask Alice when she's six feet tall. Six foot tall Alice does not appreciate you heteronormatively assigning Xer gender pronouns.

Posted by: wooga at April 30, 2015 12:19 PM (vNzbV)

42 The worst part of slowly, reverently walking past 50,000 names carved into black granite in Washington, DC? For nothing. Still looking forward to pissing on Jane Fonda's -- and all the other traitors to these young men -- grave. I suspect it's gonna be a long line ahead of me. That's okay, I've been saving up a long time.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at April 30, 2015 12:19 PM (xQX/f)

43 Left a lot of friends there. Abandoning the people there was the most despicable thing this country has done in a hundred years.

Posted by: Javems at April 30, 2015 12:19 PM (ZnvRl)

44 Sven, if you don't mind lotus eaters in an obscure location there is New Zealand.

AllenG, I just prefer to precisely identify who really sold all those people in South East Asia who got murdered, tortured,, imprisoned, and fled their countries down the Mekong river.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 12:21 PM (CwVOr)

45 8th generation blacks in Baltimore versus 2nd generation Vietnamese.

Compare and contrast.

Bonus points for making Whitey be racist in both.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at April 30, 2015 12:21 PM (TV9BR)

46 Someone needs to add this to the DemoKKKrat Party's body-count, publicly.

Posted by: Mickey Shwarma at April 30, 2015 12:21 PM (8E9QA)

47 I was in boot camp on this date. A lot of the drill instructors were Nam vets and it was a sad day for all of us.

Posted by: Pecan Scandi at April 30, 2015 12:21 PM (JVWwF)

48 My dad fought in Vietnam. He doesn't talk about much of it (though he does have some funny stories that he'll share). But I know that it makes him very, very angry what happened after his friends died there. It really shaped his thoughts about foreign policy, and that -in turn- shaped mine. 1) Go in. 2) Win. 3) Get out. But if you're not going to do step 2, don't even bother with step 1.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 30, 2015 12:22 PM (kff5f)

49 Democrats have been betraying US interests since the Copperheads.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD)


Wut?

Posted by: Average Democrat at April 30, 2015 12:23 PM (LAe3v)

50 44 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 05:21 PM (CwVOr)

Eh New Zealand is doable, I'm bothered wife and I probably can't migrate to either New Zealand or Oz....

I love the Vietnamese, almost married a Viet gal..

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:23 PM (/4AZU)

51 Boy the democrats sure hate yellow people....and brown ones....and most of all black ones.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at April 30, 2015 12:23 PM (TV9BR)

52 I was there for that evacuation.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at April 30, 2015 12:23 PM (wlDny)

53

And remember, despite all the bloodshed and betrayal, the Vietnamese today work long hours making goods for US companies, so they can spend their wages on KFC and tickets to American movies. 

 

All betraying them did was add a generation of suffering.  Communism still lost in the end.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at April 30, 2015 12:23 PM (OiH3z)

54 AllenG, I just prefer to precisely identify who really sold all those people in South East Asia who got murdered, tortured,, imprisoned, and fled their countries down the Mekong river. Fair enough. But what about the people who elected those Democrats? Many of whom would then turn their backs on the men who served and bled over there.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 30, 2015 12:24 PM (kff5f)

55 The day that the thread fell...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 30, 2015 12:25 PM (F2IAQ)

56 Col. Robin Olds to President Johnson on Vietnam - "It's simple sir - just win it!"

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 12:25 PM (CwVOr)

57 All betraying them did was add a generation of suffering. Communism still lost in the end.

It also dismissed the sacrifice of 50,000 young men, as well as our national honor.  Burn in hell, Frank Church.

Posted by: pep at April 30, 2015 12:26 PM (LAe3v)

58 Damn. Between this and the Bukkake Theater thread below, I'm terribly depressed. It seriously seems like I have nothing substantive in common with most of my fellow countrymen- and might not have ever in my lifetime.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 30, 2015 12:27 PM (kff5f)

59 Boy the democrats sure hate yellow people....and brown ones....and most of all black ones. Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican But we love the Red Man. I love them so much I stole an Affirmative Action seat at Harvard from one.

Posted by: Fauxcahontas at April 30, 2015 12:27 PM (Q/rld)

60 South Vietnam could've been the "South Korea" of Southeast Asia by now, if only DemoKKKrats had followed through on our commitments in the Paris Peace Accords of 1973. And that's even though the US pussied out and allowed NVA troops to stay in the South Vietnamese territory they occupied at the time.

Posted by: Mickey Shwarma at April 30, 2015 12:28 PM (8E9QA)

61 And here we are repeating history.

Saigon didn't fall, it was pushed.

Pushed by Democrat run Congress that took away all the funding we had promised to SVN when we pulled the troops out.

Contrary to Jane Fonda, Billy Ayers, Walter Cronkite and other leftist scumbags, we did not lose in Viet Nam, we were hamstrung, hampered and restricted on all fronts yet we were still keeping them north of the DMZ.

Not even the '68 Tet Offensive did much real damage. But the leftists here at home with their enabling partners in the Media made it look as if we were drowning in blood.

The viet Cong shot their wad in '68. It was a desparation move because they were losing influence, money and places to hide. The NVA couldn't reinforce them and barely were supplying them. It was a suicide run and with a week the Cong were shattered.

But the optics were bad and no one believed the military anymore because we expected war to look like what Hollywood had sold us for years. And besides this war wasn't like the war in Europe or even in the Pacific (although that came closer).

Then we had all the fifth columnists working busily to undermine the military and anyone who tried to keep the commitment we made by treaty to aid the SVN in their fight against the NVA.

And on top of that a bunch of college pukes who didn't want to wind up getting shot in VN and disrupting their college degree. See that's what frosts the cookie. Until Johnson started pouring more conscripts into VN no one gave a shit but to win it we needed bodies on the ground.

Which was good but they then hamstrung the military as to ROE and objectives, micromanaged the bombing from 10,000 miles away by just out of Yale and Harvard MBA's telling Military guys with chests full of medals how to fight the war. It soon became a mess and everyone started to CYA and once that happens, the tactical situation goes down the toilet.

Drugs and dope didn't help but that was more a symptom than a cause.

the military made big mistakes by trying to shuffle every officer through the war zone so as to get them some combat experience on their record. Officers were on a 6 month tour while the grunts were on a 12 month tour.

this led to some disparity of experience and some resentment in the ranks. Experienced CO's were being rotated our and newbies shoved in while experience nco's were getting told what to do by some wet behind the ears college grad who was humpin some chick on the quad just last week. It led to some tense situations.

Also too many commanders leading from above. Sure it gave them a bird's eye view of the battle field but it also separated them from the gunfire and havoc meanwhile the troops were slogging through mud, blood and fighting off disease and bugs just for some whirly bird commando to swoop in with clean utilities telling them how proud he was.

This also was a time of racial tension as the blacks thought they were catching the short end of the stick while the white guys got the deferments. Some truth to that but the out and out rebellion and threat didn't help things.

Yet through all this we were winning. Until Nixon went away and Gerry Ford turned out to be almost as worse as Carter did turn out to be. And Congress pulled the plug and Vietnam went bye bye.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 12:30 PM (zRby/)

62 Sven you just liked her Pho.  Admit it. 

AllenG, then we might as well talk about Walter Cronkite and the media lies that were beaten into the American psyche on how the war was lost in 68.

For 1975, the immediate causants of the fall were those anti-war Democrats.  A modern army in combat can't survive when their supplier stops supplying.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 12:30 PM (CwVOr)

63 I was there for that evacuation. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 30, 2015 05:23 PM (wlDny) France (1954) or USA?

Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at April 30, 2015 12:30 PM (xQX/f)

64 You may fire when you are ready, Gridley!

Posted by: John Fucking Kerry at April 30, 2015 12:31 PM (ty633)

65 60 Posted by: Mickey Shwarma at April 30, 2015 05:28 PM (8E9QA)

Donkey *wanted* us to lose Vietnam not even pull the draw and reveled behind closed doors that "the good guys finally won."

They deny the re-education camps and were arguing at the time the Cambodian Killing fields were overstated as the other dominoes fell.

I swore a blood oath back in the 70s as a child seeing this shit on the TV that I would die before I voted mule....

of course the GOP is now more Mule than the Mules then were...

I have no country.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:31 PM (/4AZU)

66 Not even the '68 Tet Offensive did much real damage. But the leftists here at home with their enabling partners in the Media made it look as if we were drowning in blood.


The Viet Cong were decimated by the Tet Offensive and never recovered.  The Regulars also lost heavily.  Walter The Wrongkite was a bullshit liberal liar.  And both the North and Wrongkite owned up to this decades later.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at April 30, 2015 12:33 PM (wlDny)

67 The Copperheads. Yes Honest Abe had his hands full most of the time, but still maintained his sardonic sense of humor thru all his misery.

Posted by: Ron who gets no Clinton Cash at April 30, 2015 12:35 PM (PHsbY)

68 66 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 30, 2015 05:33 PM (wlDny)

Jungle John Kerry will be buried with full US military honors(sadly) and in a swerve get Hero of the Soviet Union, Chinese Red Banner, and Vietnamese Red Order as well...

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:35 PM (/4AZU)

69 nood.

Posted by: rickb223 [/s][/b][/i] at April 30, 2015 12:35 PM (RYMED)

70  
   There's a fair number of graves I mean to piss on,and I mean to live long enough to do so.

  But John Kerry's is #1.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 30, 2015 12:36 PM (jeCnD)

71 70  But John Kerry's is #1.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 30, 2015 05:36 PM (jeCnD)



Hanoi Jane is number 1 for me.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at April 30, 2015 12:37 PM (wlDny)

72 Powerful, gut punching images are the ones of the helicopters leaving. If this blog were like snowflake land there would be huge trigger warning signs before people even had the change to see the images, especially since we do have vets here. Hidden behind an expand link. But the Horde is tough, we can take it. Spy museum in DC has diaramas of what the Vietnamese holes looked like, that they dug to disguise themselves during the war. Like a giant ant colony down there. When I was little I remember the posters from Miss Saigon; at the time it, Les Mis, Cats and Phantom seemed like the biggest musicals ever. (Ha that dates me.) But I cannot think of the last time I ever heard the musical being mentioned, or performed anywhere. Was it a terrible musical, anyone see it? I listened to the soundtrack once, the fact I cannot remember one song from it probably says it all.

Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 12:39 PM (yRwC8)

73 The last troop out of that embassy was a Marine.  We brought him back on our ship (along with a lot of other folks minus the helos)

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at April 30, 2015 12:43 PM (wlDny)

74 72 Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 05:39 PM (yRwC

The Tunnels of Cu Chi were an astounding work of human engineering...

https://youtu.be/ff7alf6EKnw

(Documentary)

Rat-Six and batman were legendary tunnel rats.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:43 PM (/4AZU)

75 >>> Not even the '68 Tet Offensive did much real damage. But the leftists here at home with their enabling partners in the Media made it look as if we were drowning in blood. What lost the war on the homefront was the optics; people finally could see live video feeds of the horrors of war in their living rooms, combined with the media narrative that the war was pointless and hopeless. Tell that to the children of Vietnamese immigrants though. Enabling media has existed for a long time; finally we have some tools of our own to try to push back.

Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 12:44 PM (yRwC8)

76 I got into a big argument with my brother at his son's wedding reception about this.  He was all for going into Iraq and I said no based on how the Democrats sold out all the dead in this shameful episode. I could see the same thing happening again.  And it did as soon as they took over from Bush.



I have come to the conclusion that all Democrats are treasonous, lying, crooks, and assholes.

Posted by: Vic[/i] We Have No Party at April 30, 2015 12:47 PM (wlDny)

77 >>>Officers were on a 6 month tour while the grunts were on a 12 month tour.<<<<
.
Tours were the same for Army personnel, enlisted or commissioned  (except for Al Gore anyway)..  Often times company grade officers were pulled from the field after six months but they stayed in country, the attrition rate was pretty high for them.

Posted by: Javems at April 30, 2015 12:48 PM (ZnvRl)

78 Ok, I'm angry now. and it's going to be on PBS. I can just imagine the spin. It was all Nixon's fault, all the republican's fault, and the word 'democrat' will never be mentioned. Now I'm really angry

Posted by: Lyle Doughton at April 30, 2015 12:49 PM (IUube)

79 carved into black granite in Washington, DC? For nothing. Never say "for nothing". Democrats needed 100K of our dead and 10+M killed by US to forget the Cold War long enough for RR to say "We Win".

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 12:53 PM (DL2i+)

80
   Rotating the officers was probably the biggest mistake.

   The newbies had to keep learning the same lessons.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 30, 2015 12:54 PM (jeCnD)

81 I happened to watch the PBS show preceding this that focused on the military draft. My stomach couldn't take watching anymore of that crap.

Posted by: DanMan at April 30, 2015 01:02 PM (RusNE)

82 I had the pleasure of working with the chopper's pilot back in the 90s - Col Gerald Berry. Great guy. That's assuming these last 11 flew out on "Lady Ace 09", with the Ambassador.

Posted by: weew at April 30, 2015 01:06 PM (0tmLY)

83 I was a teenager when this happened, I remember that top picture very clearly.

Posted by: small town girl at April 30, 2015 01:07 PM (W4M4n)

84 6 months combat/command tour. Yes they stayed for another 6 months back at hq.

The grunts did not get 6 months at hq is my point.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 01:07 PM (zRby/)

85 As far as I'm concerned this picture belongs up along side of the ones from Pearl Harbor as a Day That Will Live In Infamy.

Inflicted by the anti war anti american Democrats.

I don't understand, don't they know they live here?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 01:10 PM (zRby/)

86 I'll never forget the Academy Award ceremony that year. Some Commie producer/director announced that the South Vietnamese Army was crumbling, and the whole place erupted in applause.

Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2015 01:12 PM (c056A)

87 Bush's father was invovled in this disaster when he was incahrge of the CIA. His son was just carrying out this continuing saga...........

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at April 30, 2015 01:37 PM (Sd++4)

88 You're welcome.

Posted by: Walter Cronkite at April 30, 2015 01:38 PM (8ZskC)

89 LOL I read that and I hear Kronkite saying it

Posted by: weew at April 30, 2015 01:40 PM (0tmLY)

90 An outcome completely owned by the (D)Marxist party. Subhuman creatures.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaroland at April 30, 2015 01:40 PM (6AHTe)

91 *Cronkite Who cares, he's dead.

Posted by: weew at April 30, 2015 01:42 PM (0tmLY)

92 I was the last American to get out. Chilling experience.

Posted by: Brian Williams at April 30, 2015 01:43 PM (RusNE)

93 Jesus H Clogginstien!!! Bush was an idiot but responisble for all this stuff, but Obama that so brilliant for everything does this stuff and not his fault? Blow me you fat fu*king slob!!!!

Posted by: Frogger McGhee at April 30, 2015 01:43 PM (tDemh)

94 John Kerry is a dishonorable piece of shit. The fact that he's on living large the federal payroll (and the Heinz payroll) rather than living under a bridge talking to himself just burns.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 30, 2015 01:44 PM (8ZskC)

95 61 And here we are repeating history. Saigon didn't fall, it was pushed. Yes. Precisely.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaroland at April 30, 2015 01:44 PM (6AHTe)

96 @93 Great! You just fed him. Now he's gonna be wankin' it till midnight.

Posted by: weew at April 30, 2015 01:45 PM (0tmLY)

97 I remember back around 1990 when I took my board exams for specialty certification in Pathology.  I didn't have much money and the exams were in Columbus, Ohio.  As a service, the Board allowed people to ask for a roommate for the hotel, who would be randomly assigned.

The year I took the boards, my rommate was a Vietnamese guy.  He told a fascinating story.  During the Vietnam war, he was a physician with ARVN.  When Vietnam fell, he got his family out, but decided that since he was a noncombatant, it would be safe for him to stay -- after all, they needed docs, right?

Unfortunately, the commies didn't feel that way.  He was arrested as a "war criminal" and sent to a re-education camp for about 15 years and used for slave labor.  Finally, physically broken, he was released in Ho Chi Minh city and given a menial government job. 

He then applied to emigrate to the US, but the very fact he asked to go was considered treason, and he lost his job.  Without income, he ended up living in the Chinese ghetto (the Chinese were a persecuted minority at the time) living on scraps.

Then, in the late 80s, the Vietnamese decided to deport Chinese.  So, he claimed to be Chinese, and they deported him -- allowing him to come to the US, where he was re-united with his family after something like 20 years.

He was trying to rebuild his career as a physician.  He had some significant language issues and had some problems passing the boards.  The time I took it was his third try.  We didn't keep in touch, but I hope he did well...

Posted by: billo at April 30, 2015 01:46 PM (WUK1X)

98

SD + + 4

Super Deranged double plus 4?

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 30, 2015 01:47 PM (uhftQ)

99 I was a teenager when this happened, I remember that top picture very clearly. Posted by: small town girl at April 30, 2015 06:07 PM (W4M4n) Something that seldom gets talked about is that that was an Air America (CIA) helicopter picking those people up.

Posted by: The Oort Cloud - SMOD is inbound at April 30, 2015 01:47 PM (yTMXB)

100 Great! You just fed him. Now he's gonna be wankin' it till midnight. Its a sock. A really tiresome sock.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 30, 2015 01:47 PM (8ZskC)

101 Rotating the officers was probably the biggest mistake. The newbies had to keep learning the same lessons. Posted by: irongrampa at April 30, 2015 05:54 PM (jeCnD) *nods with raised beer*

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaroland at April 30, 2015 01:47 PM (6AHTe)

102 Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 30, 2015 06:47 PM (8ZskC) Eh, I like it. Cloggenstein, you're welcome to post your silly sockiness whenever you want.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 30, 2015 01:48 PM (AkOaV)

103

The newbies had to keep learning the same lessons.

It's like newbies here and the trolls...

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 30, 2015 01:49 PM (uhftQ)

104 You look up best places to retire Vietnam makes a fair number of top ten lists. Tangentially, sis and BIL worked in Vietnam for a few months. One day they found that they were missing a few shoes - someone had used a fishing pole to fish them through the locked gate of their open front door. They knew that because whoever had left the pole.

Posted by: SJWs at April 30, 2015 01:50 PM (0NdlF)

105 Went to college with a few guys who did tours over there.When it happened they got together and locked themselves in a room for about a week. Didn't want to deal with anyone except if they'd been there.
Later I worked with a Vietnamese guy who got out on one of the boats later. The stories he told would give you chills.

Posted by: tu3031 at April 30, 2015 01:50 PM (YFFpo)

106 Off, sock.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 30, 2015 01:50 PM (0NdlF)

107

They knew that because whoever had left the pole.

They stole the pole to steal some shoes so they could steal a scooter, so they could go buy a gun to rob a store...

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 30, 2015 01:52 PM (uhftQ)

108 Tangentially, sis and BIL worked in Vietnam for a few months. One day they found that they were missing a few shoes - someone had used a fishing pole to fish them through the locked gate of their open front door. Give a man a shoe and he has one shoe. Teach a man to fish and he'll never go barefoot again.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 30, 2015 01:52 PM (8ZskC)

109 happy vietnam war protestors day! And don't forget may 4th is the 45th anniversary of kent state!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 01:52 PM (NRYwd)

110 tu3031, read The Killing Fields...I'd believe it.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 30, 2015 01:53 PM (uhftQ)

111 The dems left the SV to die. Disgusting.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 30, 2015 01:54 PM (uhftQ)

112 It was nixon who got cambodia involved in vietnam war when they wanted to stay out. More republican blood on their hands!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 01:55 PM (NRYwd)

113 112 ford was president REPUBLICAN! And south vietnam army was abounding more equipment to nava then we could ever replace and don't for get kissingger and nixon leaving pows in laos in january 1973.

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 01:58 PM (NRYwd)

114 Back to the other thread.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 01:59 PM (48QDY)

115 Another Bush (Daddy) mess up where innocent people died for nothing. Too bad Presdent obama was not in charge.Things would have been different !!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at April 30, 2015 02:00 PM (Sd++4)

116 Fuck yeah!!!! Your depth is astounding. Ace is so topical

Posted by: butternut at April 30, 2015 02:00 PM (F6ceQ)

117 Captain Arizona...GFYS...

the war in Cambodia was under CIA's bailiwick just like Laos....

and the Congress fucked Ford, of course we didn't know Presidents could just ignore Congress back then unlike your Mocha Jesus has taught us.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 02:01 PM (/4AZU)

118 From the mid '80s to mid '90 I worked for a guy who was over there. If you met him, you'd think he was a burned out skinny, short hippy. But he had done two tours over there as a combat infantryman, awarded the Silver Star, two Bronze Stars with V device, and a fistful of Purple Hearts (they were still digging shrapnel out of him in 1986). Being so small, he was one of the guys who guy sent into those underground bunkers the VC had, armed with only a flashlight and a .45. He told me a lot of stories over the years about what it was like. Damn, some of the stories he told would curl your fucking hair. War is a nasty business, and that is a fact, no matter where or when it is fought. But he was adamant that despite everything, we won the damn war. Our guys kicked the Commie's asses, well and truly. But the Democrats gave it away by cutting off the supplies to the SVN army, while they were facing a force with more troops, tanks and trucks that the Wehrmacht in WW II ever fielded. With supplies and our air support, the NVA could have been defeated again, but that is not what the Commiecrats wanted, may they all bark in Hell...

Posted by: The Oort Cloud - SMOD is inbound at April 30, 2015 02:01 PM (yTMXB)

119 >>> Jesus H Clogginstien!!! Ok, that just might be my new fave expletive from this site, and there is a loooong list of awesome expletives that have been posted over the years.

Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 02:02 PM (yRwC8)

120 Yeah that's all well and good but what about the radio transmissions from our allies in the Hmong ..
Eat me...

Posted by: Mickey Lolich at April 30, 2015 02:03 PM (/WmRg)

121 Nixon started that evil war against persons of yellow color and he was a Republican just like that idiot Bush that started the War in Iran !!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at April 30, 2015 02:04 PM (Sd++4)

122 I had a professor in college who had once been a high-ranking member of the South Vietnamese government. He had also been a prisoner in the north at one point, and had been tortured during his captivity. Many members of his family had been killed by commies, including his brother. He hated the American left with a white hot passion.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at April 30, 2015 02:06 PM (lmdHn)

123 So what was it like when the last American evacuated Vermont? Were you sorry to see them leave, Mary?

Posted by: tu3031 at April 30, 2015 02:06 PM (YFFpo)

124 121 Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at April 30, 2015 07:04 PM (Sd++4)

It's that special Vermont Donk shithead math...

Tricky Dick had a special time machine whereby he went back and forced JFK and LBJ to escalate the STRICTLY air support and advisory actions Truman and Ike had backed...

he was rascally like that....

Mary you have some Huma in your teeth.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 02:07 PM (/4AZU)

125 hillary has and will continue to pay dearly for her iraq war vote she learned nothing from vietnam. Lincoln Chafee a republican had the courage to vote HELL NO!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:09 PM (NRYwd)

126 After this, the killing fields. And the Democrats have the gall to congratulate each other. *spit*

Posted by: Feh at April 30, 2015 02:09 PM (Uk9e2)

127 111 The dems left the SV to die. Disgusting. Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 30, 2015 06:54 PM (uhftQ) The plight and/or outcome for South Vietnam, mattered nothing to the (D)Marxists. Same as Iraq. It was a grab for political power. They care nothing about ....people. The parallels are precise. The (D)marxist Party needs to be exterminated.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaroland at April 30, 2015 02:10 PM (6AHTe)

128 Saw a Huey trailed by a Cobra today. They circled our position once before heading for the airport.



What a coincidence.
Just kidding, airshow this weekend.

Posted by: Joe Mama at April 30, 2015 02:10 PM (BXVvA)

129 125 Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 07:09 PM (NRYwd)

Lincoln Chaffee is a fucking mule Juan...

he switched to the Dumbass party OVERT rather than stay in the covert wing.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 02:10 PM (/4AZU)

130 Eh New Zealand is doable, I'm bothered wife and I probably can't migrate to either New Zealand or Oz....

My rat bastard commie congressman, Peter DeFazio (D - what else?), who has been in the House since about 1943, and who never met a tax hike he didn't like, has his retirement home in NZ all prepped and ready to go. He figures he needs to  have a nice place to escape to once the policies he has been voting for all these years finishes turning the country into a much larger version of Detroit.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 30, 2015 02:11 PM (I8YZX)

131 And oh yes, we were in Cambodia and Laos because that is where the fucking ENEMY was, the NVA, on the Ho Chi Minh trail, as that was the only way they could get their supplies into the South. For us to have NOT been there trying to stop their Commie asses would have been the height of military stupidity. And I would just love for any cockholster who wants to talk crap about the Hmong to go say that shit to the face of anyone involved in the Steve Canyon program. I'll bring the popcorn...

Posted by: The Oort Cloud - SMOD is inbound at April 30, 2015 02:11 PM (yTMXB)

132 126 After this, the killing fields. Fast forward to now. Not a whole lot of difference, except that we are a far dumber nation.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaroland at April 30, 2015 02:12 PM (6AHTe)

133 hot, it was there.  Humid, too.  Lots of Australians and brackish water



Posted by: north of Vung Tau at April 30, 2015 02:12 PM (8CdUx)

134 new deal, bloated government great society, new form of slavery civil rights era, legal spaghetti dem control of major cities, total failures roe v wade, black genocide dem control of academia, more stupidity dem control of cultural institutions, marxist propaganda is it me, or is there a pattern

Posted by: Feh at April 30, 2015 02:15 PM (Uk9e2)

135 My wife lived thru this hell. And she's never been the same since. Born in VN in the mid-'60s, her large family was due to leave on April 7. They were preparing their minuscule amount of stuff to take when my wife took SERIOUSLY ill, and due to her illness, they could not leave. They had to trade their papers to leave to save her life. Due to this, her family spent the next 12 years in hell. She and her sisters attempted numerous times to leave by boat, but each time they ran afoul of the authorities. Luckily, they were young and only put into 'camps' that were lightly monitored, and were able to escape 3 times. Her father was not so lucky; he managed supplies to troops, and he spent 8 years in captivity, only being released when he was dying. Her BiL, who was a Major in the S. VN army, spent 7 years in a re-ed camp; to this day he suffers scars from it. Beatings were frequent. Luckily, none of them were killed, but they knew plenty who were. They 'bought' some of their freedoms due to the businesses the family owned, selling them or transferring them in order to get each other out of troubles. To this very day, she would kill a communist on sight. Without remorse of any kind. She puts the Islamic factions in the same light- seeing in them the very problems Communists caused them. Today is a revered day for her community; there will be much sorrow. This is the day they lost their country. She (and they) will never fly any other flag other than the yellow and red striped one. Ever.

Posted by: Mr Wolf at April 30, 2015 02:16 PM (cjgnX)

136 Its the democrat partys fault that the chinese army wouldn't fight for chang the cuban army wouldn't fight for batista the iranian army wouldn't fight for the shah the iraq army wouldn't fight for anybody and when we leave afganistan there army won't fight either!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:17 PM (NRYwd)

137 He hated the American left with a white hot passion. Posted by: TrivialPursuer at April 30, 2015 07:06 PM (lmdHn) I take it your friend isn't John McCain.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 02:18 PM (48QDY)

138 And today we have a commie asshole as President.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 30, 2015 02:18 PM (JgC5a)

139 Oh I forgot it was the democrats fault the british surrendered to america's general giap at yorktown!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:19 PM (NRYwd)

140 139 Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 07:19 PM (NRYwd)

No that'd be the federalists...

the Democrats were trying to cut deals with the Tories.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 02:20 PM (/4AZU)

141 "a white hot passion" racist

Posted by: Feh at April 30, 2015 02:20 PM (Uk9e2)

142 That night I was walking back to the lab in Berkeley after dinner, and saw a (Commie infested) church on the corner of Bancroft and College Ave. holding a dinner. As I walked by I saw through the window the whole assemblage stand and drink a toast.


My rage knew no bounds. The thought pisses me off to this day.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 02:20 PM (oKE6c)

143 "142 That night I was walking back to the lab in Berkeley after dinner, and saw a (Commie infested) church on the corner of Bancroft and College Ave." That was no church...

Posted by: Mr Wolf at April 30, 2015 02:22 PM (cjgnX)

144 126 After this, the killing fields.



I watched that shitty movie "The Killing Fields," in which that cocksucker Sam Waterston gravely intones that WE were to blame for the killing fields, because our bombing drove the Khmer Rouge crazy.


Asshole. Is there ANYTHING we're not to blame for?

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 02:23 PM (oKE6c)

145 143 "142 That night I was walking back to the lab in Berkeley after dinner, and saw a (Commie infested) church on the corner of Bancroft and College Ave."

That was no church...

Posted by: Mr Wolf at April 30, 2015 07:22 PM (cjgnX)




No, it wasn't, but it held itself out as one. You know, one of those "Christian Lite" type outfits that is in fact a Commie outfit.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 02:23 PM (oKE6c)

146 I watched that shitty movie "The Killing Fields," in which that cocksucker Sam Waterston gravely intones that WE were to blame for the killing fields, because our bombing drove the Khmer Rouge crazy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_an_Elephant

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 30, 2015 02:23 PM (AVEe1)

147 Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 07:19 PM (NRYwd) Are you stupid, or simply trying it out for size?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaroland at April 30, 2015 02:24 PM (6AHTe)

148 wars are easy to start hard to finish. what me worry? dubya.

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:25 PM (NRYwd)

149 OK. Just stupid, as matter of course.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaroland at April 30, 2015 02:27 PM (6AHTe)

150 148 Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 07:25 PM (NRYwd)

Mocha Jesus has tried to start five more...but hey who's fucking counting right champ?

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 02:27 PM (/4AZU)

151 98ZJUSMC, the poster is most dinky dao.  Beaucoup dinky dao in fact.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 02:27 PM (CwVOr)

152 Here we go.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 02:28 PM (b9RWD)

153 I have worked with several Vietnam Vets and South Vietnamese (SV) that escaped Vietnam. One was a Navigator for the SV Airforce He was intered in a commie reeducation camp. Escaped that, and his skills as a navigator landed him a place on a boat to here. His and many of the other stories I was told taught me to not feel sorry for myself in the minor tribulations of my blessed life.

Posted by: Robinson at April 30, 2015 02:28 PM (5gToQ)

154 Troll doesn't believe his own shit, just looking for attention. 

Try a truck stop bathroom.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at April 30, 2015 02:28 PM (oVJmc)

155 I am celebrating vietnam war protestors victory day to day we achieved are goal get america out of there!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:28 PM (NRYwd)

156 Posted by: Mr Wolf at April 30, 2015 07:16 PM (cjgnX) Blessings to your dear wife and her family. I do not see how people compare something as simple as the lifestyles for those in north vs south Korea and not come to the realization that there is something seriously fundamentally screwed up with communism. Is such a blatant example. If people here have not seen the doc on North Korea on Netflix, do so. Is chilling. The worst parts of history for me are the what-might-have-beens. The what-might-have-been for south vietnam is pretty haunting.

Posted by: LizLem at April 30, 2015 02:29 PM (yRwC8)

157 It is truly humbling the stories of the people who fled after the fall of Saigon.  Leaky boats and pirates did not deter them.  Nor escaping through the highlands to Cambodia before reaching Thailand.  And then waiting in camps before being resettled in other countries. 

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 02:31 PM (CwVOr)

158 I for one am grateful for captain*arizona's comments. "Clarifying", I believe is the word.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 30, 2015 02:31 PM (AVEe1)

159 @154 I will leave the public bathroom sex to conservatives like you and former republican senator larry craig that way you can yell I am not gay as the vice squad hauls you off!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:32 PM (NRYwd)

160 159 Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 07:32 PM (NRYwd)

better to be the one hiring than the hiree...

you and Hector at rest stop 29 my friend.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077[/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 02:32 PM (/4AZU)

161 captain*arizona lives amongst us, and represents maybe half the electorate. Probably more than half. It's his flag too. It's definitely his nation; his caste controls it, via the bureaucracy, academy, and media.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 30, 2015 02:32 PM (AVEe1)

162 OT: As of an hour ago the Maersk Tigris was still at anchor off Bandar Abbas. Crickets.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at April 30, 2015 02:33 PM (l3vZN)

163 What a depressing thread. It's all the more depressing since we're doing the same exact thing again today. And that troll needs to be terminated with extreme prejudice.

Posted by: rickl at April 30, 2015 02:33 PM (sdi6R)

164 Jinx you expect Gaylord Merkin Focker the Wurst to actually do a Jerry Ford rescue of a ship hijacked on the high seas?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 02:34 PM (CwVOr)

165 159 @154 I will leave the public bathroom sex to conservatives like you and former republican senator larry craig that way you can yell I am not gay as the vice squad hauls you off!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 07:32 PM (NRYwd)



So ... you're saying there's something wrong with homosexuality? That it's [i/]perverted? And antisocial? And its practitioners are to be deprecated, and/or prosecuted?


Good to know.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 02:34 PM (oKE6c)

166 We will bear any burden, pay any price -- Jack Kennedy Few years later the price was too high to stop communism.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 02:34 PM (wkuqO)

167 @157 people are still leaving in leaky boats today if from cuba we let them land if from some place else we send em back or let the boat sink! Eurpoe does the same.

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:35 PM (NRYwd)

168 No Anna, but I do expect the world to hear about the incident for longer than 6 hours.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at April 30, 2015 02:35 PM (l3vZN)

169 Good luck on that Jinx, they are too focused on what type of plastic Vajayjay Brucie is getting...  or burning and looting.

*thud*

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 02:37 PM (CwVOr)

170 166 We will bear any burden, pay any price -- Jack Kennedy



For education and entertainment, whenever a Red says that the Republicans have moved far to the right, quote JFK and attribute the quote to, e.g., Rush Limbaugh.


I've done this, and received spluttering rage at the "conservative retard" with his "insane rantings." Then I tell them it's a JFK quote, and provide the link.


Probably doesn't do any good, but it makes me feel a little better, and there's not much that does that any more.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 02:37 PM (oKE6c)

171 @165 just anti-gay closet queens like you and your buddy lady craig.

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:37 PM (NRYwd)

172 Illiterate clown is illiterate.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at April 30, 2015 02:37 PM (KhFZp)

173 It is going to boots and saddles with China in the not too distant future. Maybe showing our jazz hands will stop them. Does Japan have any jazz hands to show??????? Personally I don't think China will be showing mercy.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 02:38 PM (wkuqO)

174 Interesting how Reds and other shitheads will bleat piously about how wonderful homosexuality is, and how we should all accept it, when it's their go-to insult for us.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 02:40 PM (oKE6c)

175 The democrats paid A very high price for those jfk words ask hillary clinton who lost 2008 nomination because she was too clever by half!

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:40 PM (NRYwd)

176 OKNews http://bit.ly/okla-vn40 ...More refugees fled on small boats - hundreds of thousands would lose their lives at sea. But many made their way to the United States and a few, eventually, to Oklahoma. Then, during the 1980s and 1990s, more would arrive, including the children of former U.S. service members and others who'd suffered as political prisoners in communist re-education camps. Today, there are more than 12,000 people who identify themselves as Vietnamese living in the Oklahoma City metropolitan area, according to the latest census figures. To commemorate the anniversary of the Vietnam War's end, we recently asked several to discuss their refugee experience, the life they left behind and the freedom they've embraced in America. ...

Posted by: Slivered Surfer at April 30, 2015 02:40 PM (ACs58)

177 The democrats paid A very high price The Vietnamese paid a higher price for Democratic Party betray, you useless fuckwit.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 02:41 PM (rwI+c)

178 I'm just a simple bio-mechanical love doll who loves dancing, guns, bling, and motorcycles.  And I am losing IQ points due to the idiots in this thread.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 02:42 PM (CwVOr)

179 The democrats paid A very high price



Not as high a price as they're going to pay.

Posted by: Jay Guevara[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 30, 2015 02:42 PM (oKE6c)

180 or betrayal either or

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 02:42 PM (rwI+c)

181 178: Same here.

Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at April 30, 2015 02:43 PM (ucDmr)

182 162 its flag is marshall islands, a us protectorate or, a propos the obama era, a us expectorate dear leader will just harf it up

Posted by: Feh at April 30, 2015 02:44 PM (Uk9e2)

183 At that point, the Dems would've given the Commies Chicago, SanFran, NYC, Portland, Minneapolis... oh, wait.

Posted by: Steve White, eater of the cheese popcorn at April 30, 2015 02:44 PM (M/v8Y)

184 If only we had a Walter Cronkite today to tell us about our Tet loss in Baltimore so we could cut off the money we spend there.

Posted by: Robinson at April 30, 2015 02:47 PM (5gToQ)

185 Dems don't want the US to win a war.

Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2015 02:49 PM (tCIrG)

186 Honor our Vietnam vets. Let them know that 40 years later, their sacrifice hasn't been forgotten. Nor shall it ever be.

Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2015 02:49 PM (c056A)

187 @185 win against Commies or Muzzies. Recall that Cap'n. Harry dropped 2 big ones on the Sons of Nippon.

Posted by: Steve White, eater of the cheese popcorn at April 30, 2015 02:50 PM (M/v8Y)

188 This administration hates western ideals, and they are not alone. That is OK if they would just own it and not lie. There spokesholes will stand there and tell bold face lies to hide their hatred the selling of America down their river. Who you gonna believe them or your lying eyes? These same people have been doing this since the Vietnam war. It is fucked up anyway but when they get in charge like now, it is a royal cluster fuck.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 02:50 PM (wkuqO)

189 By that time the Dems were more interested in fighting another losing war, the one on Poverty.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at April 30, 2015 02:51 PM (oVJmc)

190 Please excuse me. My mommy liked to give me enemas and this whole bathroom sex thing has makes me feel strange and tingly "down there" if you know what I mean...

Posted by: capt*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:51 PM (eHd+c)

191 IMO, Dems today = Commie-fag-junkies.

Posted by: Steve White, eater of the cheese popcorn at April 30, 2015 02:51 PM (M/v8Y)

192 I wish Hillary would give me an enema. I'd even call her mommy if she did.

Posted by: capt*arizona at April 30, 2015 02:52 PM (eHd+c)

193 A view from the other side: http://tinyurl.com/pw8j36h

Posted by: Mike at April 30, 2015 02:54 PM (tCIrG)

194 I was there off the coast.  AFRTS (A-Farts) broadcasting that there were no US ships within 200 nm of the Vietnamese coast - I counted 18 around me with the coast in sight.  A busy few days.  Everybody running away.  I'll never forget.

Posted by: bullnuke at April 30, 2015 02:56 PM (8lP3Q)

195 Is this the NFL Draft Thread?

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 02:57 PM (nL0sw)

196 pfc az, fukc off

Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 02:58 PM (12uNu)

197 Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 07:58 PM (12uNu) Heh.

Posted by: Golfman at April 30, 2015 02:59 PM (48QDY)

198 Nearly 60,000 soldiers dead, including my cousin. I had come to grips with that damned war after not having gotten a good nights sleep for over 30 years. Then Obama and what he did to Iraq. Now that same damned hate filled resentment wrestles with me nearly all the time now. Fucking sucks.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 30, 2015 02:59 PM (BZAd3)

199 Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 07:58 PM (12uNu) as my grandpappy used to say, you feed the dangerous animals at the zoo -- not the trolls.

Posted by: the guy who always quotes his grandpappy at April 30, 2015 03:00 PM (AkOaV)

200 If I had Ace's time machine, I would go back and strangle Frank Church's mother in her crib.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 03:00 PM (rwI+c)

201 I just get beat up when I go into public bathrooms.

Posted by: captain.arizona at April 30, 2015 03:00 PM (Nyany)

202 Vietnam, a victory courtesy of demorats siding with our enemies against us.  Ferguson, Baltimore, Iraq, more victories of the left, and Americans forced to pay the bills in more way than one, CHRISTIANS AROUND THE WORLD TOO.

Posted by: ron n. at April 30, 2015 03:02 PM (YVQn/)

203 FTSB - Bill Maher Owns Guns For Protection, But Others Have a "Sickness" In fairness, I am sick of Bill Maher.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 03:04 PM (rwI+c)

204 My friend Andrew was a Chinook chopper pilot in 'Nam.
He talks about it when I visit and he's had a few beers.

Pretty interesting stories about very interesting times.

I tried to get him to visit AoS but he hasn't yet so far as I know.
And yeah, we've both agreed Hanoi Jane first, then Kerry.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at April 30, 2015 03:04 PM (4CRfK)

205 194 I was there off the coast. AFRTS (A-Farts) broadcasting that there were no US ships within 200 nm of the Vietnamese coast - I counted 18 around me with the coast in sight. A busy few days. Everybody running away. I'll never forget. Posted by: bullnuke at April 30, 2015 07:56 PM (8lP3Q) There were Carrier Air assets, in place, to completely destroy the NVA on the roads. USAF and 25th Division troops on Guam, were just waiting for the word. Of course, it never came.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at April 30, 2015 03:05 PM (DCpyI)

206 @193 If you believe that, read "White Feather", a biography of Carlos Hathcock, by Chandler. Fuckin' gooks.

Posted by: Steve White, eater of the cheese popcorn at April 30, 2015 03:06 PM (M/v8Y)

207 198 Nearly 60,000 soldiers dead, including my cousin.

I had come to grips with that damned war after not having gotten a good nights sleep for over 30 years. Then Obama and what he did to Iraq. Now that same damned hate filled resentment wrestles with me nearly all the time now.

Fucking sucks. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb

Kinda makes you wonder if those assholes that gave the orders to pull out have any recriminations at all.

They rinse and repeat so often I'm thinking not.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at April 30, 2015 03:07 PM (4CRfK)

208 I tried to get him to visit AoS but he hasn't yet so far as I know. And yeah, we've both agreed Hanoi Jane first, then Kerry. Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at April 30, 2015 08:04 PM (4CRfK) I have never seen a movie with Jane Fonda in it. I have embarrassed my wife by insisting that we leave whenever we were somewhere where people wanted to watch one of her movies. I have a lot of hate for her.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 30, 2015 03:08 PM (BZAd3)

209 Kinda makes you wonder if those assholes that gave the orders to pull out have any recriminations at all. They rinse and repeat so often I'm thinking not. Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at April 30, 2015 08:07 PM (4CRfK) No, no they don't. Politicians have no training for war. In general they start out slow and work up to world wars.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 03:09 PM (wkuqO)

210 It was my privilege to be a member of a shooting club that included a 50 gunner from a PBR in the Brown Water Navy. He knew John Kerry. He said John Kerry was a menace to himself and to those around him-- in the USN, if not the gooks. Naturally, the god-king chose him to deliver nukes to the Twelver Mullahs.

Posted by: Steve White, eater of the cheese popcorn at April 30, 2015 03:10 PM (M/v8Y)

211 Tampa Bay takes Crablegs Winston at #1.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:10 PM (nL0sw)

212 yuuuummmm....

Crab legs

Nyah!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 03:13 PM (CwVOr)

213 202 Vietnam, a victory courtesy of demorats siding with our enemies against us. We didn't lose Vietnam. In fact, I'll argue with anyone that we won, both Miiltarily (completely) and politically (eventually). What the US lost, was itself. Stolen by a media just starting to fully exert it Marxism. My brother is in Hanoi now, working for one of those eeeeevil capitalist Corporations. They love it and they, them. The Vietnamese absolutely hate the Chinese. Bill Maher. Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 08:04 PM (rwI+c) is a retarded puppy molester.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at April 30, 2015 03:13 PM (DCpyI)

214 Kinda makes you wonder if those assholes that gave the orders to pull out have any recriminations at all. They rinse and repeat so often I'm thinking not. Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at April 30, 2015 08:07 PM (4CRfK) I've thought about that often. I think that a person changes when they have the power to send another into harms way, especially from a safe difference. I think that power can, if allowed, go to a person's head and they feed on the power of it to the point where other people's lives lose any value or meaning. I didn't put that well, but you get the idea.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 30, 2015 03:13 PM (BZAd3)

215 One day, Jane's gonna have a big funeral.

Then the next day the coffin will be found floating in a lake of piss.

It's that bad. She's lucky she's lived this long.

Our numbers are declining.

But we're waiting Jane. We're waiting.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 03:15 PM (zRby/)

216 I prefer to molest Thai tranny hookers thank you.

Posted by: Bill Maher at April 30, 2015 03:15 PM (Nyany)

217 Lovie Smith has become the scoamf of the NFL. Not a leader, keeps getting to make choices that are way over his "knowledge" Winston will be out of football in 5 years, if that.

Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 03:16 PM (12uNu)

218 I think that power can, if allowed, go to a person's head and they feed on the power of it to the point where other people's lives lose any value or meaning. I didn't put that well, but you get the idea. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 30, 2015 08:13 PM (BZAd3) Hard decisions should be difficult but: This fucking president can go to bed while people he knows are being murdered. He is a cold son of a bitch and unless I miss my guess he has always been so.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 03:16 PM (wkuqO)

219
   It hurts seeing what happened to us happening to this generation of troops.

   All the effort and sacrifice for nothing.

   Courtesy of the Democrats.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 30, 2015 03:17 PM (jeCnD)

220 Mark Moyar, "Triumph Forsaken, the VN War, 1954-1965", (Cambridge Univ. Press) 2006, makes the case that LBJ fucked it up based on bad intel. Recall that '65 was when the Marines landed.

Posted by: Steve White, eater of the cheese popcorn at April 30, 2015 03:19 PM (M/v8Y)

221 Titans take Mariota at #2.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:19 PM (nL0sw)

222 He is a cold son of a bitch and unless I miss my guess he has always been so. Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 08:16 PM (wkuqO) It's part and parcel of his personality profile, for those of us who care to acknowledge that.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at April 30, 2015 03:20 PM (DCpyI)

223 I didn't even hate the Democrats for what they did then.

The left, yeah. Some of the rich students, yeah.

Now. Now lately I've begun to HATE Democrats.

The kind of hate that says 'take no prisoners'.

That's why I'm getting so mad at the GOP. They're not really doing anything they haven't done before.

But now, they're doing it for people I HATE and who have made it very very clear that they HATE me and my religion and what I believe in and this country.

I cannot fully express how I feel for to do so would cross a legal line that could mean trouble for me and ace.

So I'll leave it to your imagination.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 03:21 PM (zRby/)

224 The bad intel came when USS Maddox and USS Turner Joy reported being attacked by NV torpedo boats at night.  That lead to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 03:22 PM (CwVOr)

225 not democrats socialists

Posted by: Feh at April 30, 2015 03:23 PM (Uk9e2)

226 It hurts seeing what happened to us happening to this generation of troops. All the effort and sacrifice for nothing. Courtesy of the (D)Marxists. Posted by: irongrampa at April 30, 2015 08:17 PM (jeCnD)

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at April 30, 2015 03:24 PM (DCpyI)

227 Obama is not "cold" he is passionless. He's a psychopath.

He mimics emotion which is why he can be so persuasive.

Mentally he's divorced from reality. Reality has never really affected him. He has no sympathy no feelings, no empathy because he's dead inside.

The first I saw and the more I heard, I became afraid of this man. He is capable of anything.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 03:24 PM (zRby/)

228 Bitter Clinger Agree wholeheartedly. They want to destroy what we are.

Posted by: seamrog at April 30, 2015 03:24 PM (12uNu)

229 YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!! Our side won!! Oooops.......too soon?

Posted by: DNC Spokestool at April 30, 2015 03:25 PM (2mJMN)

230 I can't believe Tampa took Winston 1st pick. That was a waste.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 03:25 PM (rwI+c)

231 If you believe that, read "White Feather", a biography of Carlos Hathcock, by Chandler. $45 for a Kindle ebook version. /whistle

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 30, 2015 03:26 PM (0NdlF)

232 @224 I hate to seem even a tiny bit disputatious lest I find an alarming-looking tentacle tentatively investigating one of my orifices, but Moyar's main point was that RVN was a vital interest to the U.S., and that there were more than one way for RVN to win the war-- without U.S. troops.

Posted by: Steve White, eater of the cheese popcorn at April 30, 2015 03:26 PM (M/v8Y)

233 223 I didn't even hate the Democrats for what they did then. The left, yeah. Some of the rich students, yeah. Now. Now lately I've begun to HATE Democrats. The kind of hate that says 'take no prisoners'. That's why I'm getting so mad at the GOP. They're not really doing anything they haven't done before. But now, they're doing it for people I HATE and who have made it very very clear that they HATE me and my religion and what I believe in and this country. I cannot fully express how I feel for to do so would cross a legal line that could mean trouble for me and ace. So I'll leave it to your imagination. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 08:21 PM (zRby/) I didn't understand them, then, and there were still those among their ranks that were like us. Now, I know them and feel the exact same way. Trust me.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at April 30, 2015 03:28 PM (DCpyI)

234 Jags take Fowler at #3.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:28 PM (nL0sw)

235 Yeah, I get too upset, so Ima gonna bail on y'all. Have a great evening Morons!

Posted by: Steve White, eater of the cheese popcorn at April 30, 2015 03:29 PM (M/v8Y)

236 it's a mystery to me why obama lives and infinitely better men than him die I guess you could call it a hunger for justice

Posted by: Feh at April 30, 2015 03:29 PM (Uk9e2)

237 231 If you believe that, read "White Feather", a biography of Carlos Hathcock, by Chandler. $45 for a Kindle ebook version. /whistle Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 30, 2015 08:26 PM (0NdlF) I have the book somewhere. He used a Mod 70 winchester in 30-06 I had one that would shoot like that but they are rare. Scopes are much better now.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 03:30 PM (wkuqO)

238 Obama is not "cold" he is passionless. He's a psychopath. True. Not cold and calculating. He's not that cunning. It's the powers behind him. He's not all that smart, either.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at April 30, 2015 03:32 PM (DCpyI)

239 Raiders take Amari Cooper at #4.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:32 PM (nL0sw)

240 That whole Tonkin Gulf thing was blown way out of proportion and to me has always smelled of someone taking advantage of the situation to raise the stakes.

Who, I have no clue but given the amibiguities of that night and that the NV never attacked like that before and never attacked like that again seems to me to look mighty suspicious.

Whenever we went into the Gulf to do SAR patrol, we had to carry .50 cals on the signal deck so as to repel their smaller craft. Never used them. Never came close. Never heard of them doing that again for the 2 1/2 tours I did over there.

They did not have the Navy necessary to think about attacking. Plus they were so outgunned.

All some sigint wonk's wetdream. And LBJ's EGO.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 03:32 PM (zRby/)

241 That whole Tonkin Gulf thing was blown way out of proportion and to me has always smelled of someone taking advantage of the situation to raise the stakes. And LBJ's EGO *nods* Agreed.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at April 30, 2015 03:35 PM (DCpyI)

242 Obama is not "cold" he is passionless. He's a psychopath. ----------------- That. Textbook.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 30, 2015 03:36 PM (F2IAQ)

243 Redskins take Brandon Scherff (OT, Iowa) at #5.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:37 PM (nL0sw)

244 There might have been other ways for the Republic of Vietnam to win, but the 1963 coup against Diem that the US supported drastically reduced the option trees.  Especially when both Diem brothers were killed in the coup.  And until Nguyen Cao Ky, Saigon did not have any stable government.  But by then the US had been told the war was lost.

If we want to go further back, how about when Japan occupied French Indochina? Or France's attempt to regain their colony that lead to the first war in that beautiful land which only ended in 1954 creating North and South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.

But back to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.  It was the reports of those two destroyers being attacked that lead to Johnson asking for the sweeping powers he claimed to need to deal with what had been until then a low intensity proxy war.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 03:38 PM (CwVOr)

245 Raiders take Amari Cooper at #4. Any team would benefit from having Cooper. The guy is going to be a star.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 03:39 PM (rwI+c)

246 DiT should throw up a Draft thread.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 03:40 PM (rwI+c)

247 Ima kick ass all the way to Saigon. You wanna rumble in Balmer, I put my taser on stun. And outside Camden Yards, I'll ice Sharpton.

Posted by: Robyn at April 30, 2015 03:40 PM (cIoI4)

248 I think there is out there a quote from James Stockdale saying they knew it was BS the attack on the destroyers when it happened.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 03:41 PM (CwVOr)

249 I didn't fight in Vietnam, and I've never visited there either, so I hope I'm not speaking out of turn. But I've heard that the Vietnamese people like Americans, more or less, and Americans who visit the country nowadays are treated well. For what it's worth. And they seem to be at least somewhat capitalist today, so maybe we had the last laugh. I don't know.

Posted by: rickl at April 30, 2015 03:42 PM (sdi6R)

250 DiT should throw up a Draft thread. Posted by: toby928(C) at April 30, 2015 08:40 PM (rwI+c) Concur. We need some time off from the larger ills of the world. Jets on the clock.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:42 PM (nL0sw)

251 From what I read about Diem, he had the problem that he acted like a tribal warlord. But Catholic! You can do that if you're a village mestizo kingpin in Michihuacan under Cortes. The Spaniards will have your back. You CAN'T discriminate against non-Catholics if you're being supported by France, or by a Protestant / Deist nation like the US at the time. Those overlords are not going to have your back.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 30, 2015 03:43 PM (AVEe1)

252 I think there is out there a quote from James Stockdale saying they knew it was BS the attack on the destroyers when it happened. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 08:41 PM (CwVOr) I don't know how old you are, but everybody back then rolled their eyes at the administration's feeble attempt at justifying that whole incident.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 30, 2015 03:44 PM (BZAd3)

253 Jets take at #6: Leonard Williams (DE, USoCal)

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:46 PM (nL0sw)

254 But I've heard that the Vietnamese people like Americans, more or less, and Americans who visit the country nowadays are treated well. For what it's worth. And they seem to be at least somewhat capitalist today, so maybe we had the last laugh. I don't know. In review of the US's inability to commit, and the disastrous results of Democratic pullouts, I'm thinking there's something to be said for an isolationist view. Enough entanglements. We're not God, nor are we a World Police.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 30, 2015 03:47 PM (0NdlF)

255 - I don't know if the coup against Diem was wise, but I do know that Diem himself wasn't wise.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 30, 2015 03:47 PM (AVEe1)

256 In corruption and being tone deaf, the Diems were not much different than our current idiot in chief.

But the problem arose when the conspirators enlisted US assistance.  Thus making the US the king maker in South Vietnam for the next several presidents and coups.  It further destabilized the Republic and hampered efforts to fight the VC and NVA.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 03:47 PM (CwVOr)

257 Oh not that old, just like reading history.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 03:49 PM (CwVOr)

258 Bears take Kevin White (WR, WVU) at #7

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:52 PM (nL0sw)

259 254 In review of the US's inability to commit, and the disastrous results of Democratic pullouts, I'm thinking there's something to be said for an isolationist view. Enough entanglements. We're not God, nor are we a World Police. Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 30, 2015 08:47 PM (0NdlF) In the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, my hope is that those who were children during the occupation will grow up to have fond memories of American military personnel. We may have planted seeds there, at least.

Posted by: rickl at April 30, 2015 03:52 PM (sdi6R)

260 Oh not that old, just like reading history. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 08:49 PM (CwVOr) I can tell. I only understood a little of the politics and I wasn't in Vietnam, I was in Laos. Your understanding of the politics is very interesting.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 30, 2015 03:54 PM (BZAd3)

261 Vietnam War memorial in Houston, TX strip mall parking lot. (China/Viet town - West Bellaire) http://preview.tinyurl.com/mqk28fh

Posted by: RioBravo at April 30, 2015 03:54 PM (NUqwG)

262 that is what Moyar argued Anna, based on research in Vietnamese and Russian archives, Diem was shocker not as corrupt as portrayed, his counterinsurgency campaign was yielding results by the fall of '63, one can argue that whole affair with the monks, was much like Tet. Halberstam was listening to Vietminh moles like Pham (sic) Harriman was listening to Halberstam and the latter to Kennedy, it was a whole fustercluck, the chaos provoked by the coup, impaired any forward motion by the time we landed in Danang

Posted by: admiral marcus at April 30, 2015 03:55 PM (0u/CC)

263 Judging from his post-selection comments, Kevin White has a broadcasting option available to him after his playing days are over. Well-spoken, thinks before he speaks.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:56 PM (nL0sw)

264 the Gulf of Tonkin moves, were the logical result of the infiltration teams into Hainan and other denied areas, earlier that year, of course Johnson couldn't admit that,

Posted by: admiral marcus at April 30, 2015 03:56 PM (0u/CC)

265 It is true that as of three years ago or so, I felt zero antagonism from the Vietnamese people I met. Hanoi seemed colonial, quiet, Saigon (and the locals seem to still call it that) is like LA., neon, terrible traffic. Great food.

Posted by: Skookumchuk at April 30, 2015 03:56 PM (/WPPJ)

266 National Geographic has a video, which is also on YouTube, entitled "Brothers in Arms" about 4th Battalion 47th Infantry, 9th I.D. fighting in the Delta. It's superb, lots of film shot by unit members.My brother (deceased) was a member of Co. A, nearly wiped out as shown in film. I was in another battalion of the 9th, 1967.  The 4th/47th lost 248 KIA in 2 years, battalion strength ran about 600. My elderly mother still can't bear to even hear the words Vietnam or Democrat.

Video is highly recommended.

Posted by: JHW at April 30, 2015 03:57 PM (w+zdY)

267 g'early evenin', 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at April 30, 2015 03:57 PM (KCxzN)

268 Falcons take Beasley (OLB, Clempson) at #8

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 03:59 PM (nL0sw)

269 Never read Moyar.

And the same corruption playbook was used by this administration against Kharzi.  And people acted all outraged because Kharzi started to make friendly noises with his bitter enemies.  When your 'ally's is knifing you in your back, there is not much choice left.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 04:00 PM (CwVOr)

270 my #266 got title of video wrong, it's "Brothers in War".

Posted by: JHW at April 30, 2015 04:04 PM (w+zdY)

271 My wife and her family of 6 escaped on a crowded filthy leaking boat fleeing Saigon 40 yes ago today. It was a miracle they survived. If capt Arizona were to meet my mother in law, this skinny 67 yr old granny would strangle him w her bare hands. Viet Americans hate commies even more than Cubans hate Castro. They arrived inUS w NOTHING. The 4 daughters all got college degrees, have families and careers ... No welfare ever, even after husband died in1980. Puts the Ferguson and Baltimore rioters to shame, who do zero w all they were blessed w to be born here.

Posted by: Kortezzi at April 30, 2015 04:04 PM (HudJG)

272 Giants take Eric Flowers (OT, Miami) at #9

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:05 PM (nL0sw)

273 Correction: Ereck Flowers

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:05 PM (nL0sw)

274 Rams on the clock

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:05 PM (nL0sw)

275 DiT should throw up a Draft thread. Appropriate. Viet Nam and the Draft.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 30, 2015 04:06 PM (W5DcG)

276 Bertram you mean later in the season some of the fans will want to burn their Drafts?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 04:07 PM (CwVOr)

277 AP, Tampa Bay fans probably will.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:07 PM (nL0sw)

278 Jeez...is it just me or does Chris Berman come across as Tweedle-dumb missing his Tweedle-dee?

Posted by: Diogenes at April 30, 2015 04:08 PM (08Znv)

279 my #266 got title of video wrong, it's "Brothers in War".

Thanks and God Bless you and your family. That goddamn war fvcked up every single person I ever knew who went.

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 04:09 PM (ahBY0)

280 With the #10 pick, the Rams take Todd Gurley (RB, UGA)

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:11 PM (nL0sw)

281 Gurly?!?

He needs to change his offensive name!

Posted by: Feminazis at April 30, 2015 04:13 PM (1FyZ2)

282 Posted by: JHW at April 30, 2015 09:04 PM (w+zdY)

Here's the link to "Brothers in War" if I'm not mistaken.

http://tinyurl.com/nffyajr

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 04:13 PM (ahBY0)

283 279 my #266 got title of video wrong, it's "Brothers in War". Thanks and God Bless you and your family. That goddamn war fvcked up every single person I ever knew who went. : Then you obviously haven't met many.

Posted by: Javems at April 30, 2015 04:18 PM (ZnvRl)

284 Viet Americans hate commies even more than Cubans hate Castro. They arrived inUS w NOTHING. The 4 daughters all got college degrees, have families and careers ... No welfare ever, even after husband died in1980. Puts the Ferguson and Baltimore rioters to shame, who do zero w all they were blessed w to be born here. Posted by: Kortezzi at April 30, 2015 09:04 PM (HudJG) A couple of years ago, a Hmong family moved in down the block. Every time I see them I'm ashamed about the shit we put those people through when we bailed. I pass the matriarch of the family, little old lady about 3 1/2 ft tall and 200 years old, every now and then out walking. When I look at her, she knows. Makes me hurt.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 30, 2015 04:18 PM (BZAd3)

285 Vikings at #11 take Trae Waynes (CB, Mich State)

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:18 PM (nL0sw)

286 jeez, I remember those pictures when they were new. We've never won a war since we had a department of defense instead of a department of war. Words. Have. Meanings. Violate this principle at your own risk. If the lord spares me, I'll be giving Vic competition one of these days ... my parents were beta testers for dirt.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 30, 2015 04:18 PM (go6ud)

287 Then you obviously haven't met many.

What do you mean?

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 04:19 PM (ahBY0)

288 Thanks, I was going to post the link, it's really an excellent video. I love in a small town of about 8,000, there are a lot of KIAs on our local memorial that served in the division. One of them was a member of the Quinault Indian Nation, Roger Saux, the tribe has memorialized him in some of their buildings such as the tribal clinic and in their school. They won't forget him.

Posted by: JHW at April 30, 2015 04:19 PM (w+zdY)

289 ConservativeMonster We're not God, nor are we a World Police. we beg to differ

Posted by: America, Fcuk yeah at April 30, 2015 04:19 PM (KG0mU)

290 Oh, and just in passing, rum and pineapple juice tonight. woot?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 30, 2015 04:20 PM (go6ud)

291 The Browns take Danny Shelton (DT, UWash) at #12

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:25 PM (nL0sw)

292 Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 30, 2015 09:18 PM (go6ud)

The combination of establishing a Department of Defense to replace the War Department and the rejection of requiring a Declaration of War before commiting troops have been didsastrous for this country.

Posted by: Hrothgar [/u][/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 04:25 PM (ftVQq)

293 disastrous

Posted by: Hrothgar [/u][/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 04:25 PM (ftVQq)

294 In 1975, I was pretty much self-involved with my own world. I had no clue of the repercussions that were to echo for decades .decades. .decades... I just missed the draft, and I never had the willingness, courage, or manliness to fight. Thus ends my confession, and thank you vets of all eras.

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at April 30, 2015 04:26 PM (KG0mU)

295 "rum and pineapple juice" Costco vodka and Costco orange juice in a Costco goddam cup.

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at April 30, 2015 04:30 PM (KG0mU)

296 I just missed the draft, and I never had the willingness, courage, or manliness to fight. Thus ends my confession, and thank you vets of all eras. Posted by: JohnnyBoy at April 30, 2015 09:26 PM (KG0mU) Not really if you were drafted you would be like most everyone else and do what is in front of you. They tell you where you go and when, you might have ended up in Germany.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 04:30 PM (wkuqO)

297 We have reached a giant void between galaxies: stand by.

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at April 30, 2015 04:30 PM (KG0mU)

298 At #13 the Saints take Andrus Peat (OT, Stanford)

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:33 PM (nL0sw)

299 An interesting assortment of WW2 photos, about half I have never seen before: http://goo.gl/CiRDzp

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 30, 2015 04:33 PM (iQIUe)

300 just sayin I have no idea how I would have behaved. My mother lost her only sibling in Italy 1941 (American boy joined Canadian Infantry) She "discouraged" me from ever joining. But I wouldn't of anyway

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at April 30, 2015 04:33 PM (KG0mU)

301 President Thieu ended up attending my mission church in Tien Mou. I used to hate seeing him there, as my friends' dads had returned to VN before The Fall.

Posted by: Osoloco at April 30, 2015 04:34 PM (9kGho)

302 Wow, a pastor from Baltimore said the Mayor and President Obama committed black on black crime when they called the rioters thugs. He opened with a tirade against Donald Rumsfeld. Geez!

Posted by: no good deed at April 30, 2015 04:35 PM (GgxVX)

303 My oldest brother was career air force and spent 67 to 68 in Nam. He flew about a hundred over the red river and when he came home he was depressed and said that their would be a blood bath when we pulled out and that we were absolutely pulling out. He retired in 73 and he was proved correct.

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at April 30, 2015 04:37 PM (R8hU8)

304 Did Rumsfeld send troops to Baltimore?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 30, 2015 04:38 PM (W5DcG)

305 302 Wow, a pastor from Baltimore said the Mayor and President Obama committed black on black crime when they called the rioters thugs. He opened with a tirade against Donald Rumsfeld. Geez! Posted by: no good deed at April 30, 2015 09:35 PM (GgxVX) Today I did something I don't usually do: read uninteresting comments under the headline. I was amazed to find out it is true, I have white privilege and they are quick to call it out. These are damaged people, by their own hand.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 04:38 PM (wkuqO)

306 It was the weirdest thing. This was on the Kelly File, by the way. He said, "Donald Rumsfeld said from the Pentagon that troops could not be held responsible for looting during times of war. It's the cost of freedom." I have no idea where he was going with that unless he was going for the same thing that idiot Brooke Baldwin said.

Posted by: no good deed at April 30, 2015 04:40 PM (GgxVX)

307 Black panthers are huffing and puffing too about being willing to kill.

Posted by: just saying at April 30, 2015 04:41 PM (wkuqO)

308 That goddamn war fvcked up every single person I ever knew who went. ******** My dad had two tours as a combat engineer in the 1st Cavalry. Turned out OK.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at April 30, 2015 04:41 PM (yxw0r)

309 Dolphins take DeVante Parker (WR, Louisville)

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:41 PM (nL0sw)

310 That's pick #14

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:41 PM (nL0sw)

311 I was in my junior year at college when Vietnam fell. I recall watching the evening news every night and wondering, with many of my classmates, just how in hell this could be happening. Truly shameful behavior on the part of our political "betters", but they felt no shame, of course. The parallels to Iraq and the current Middle East are many, and still thy have no shame.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars(TM) [/i][/u][/s] at April 30, 2015 04:42 PM (95CzI)

312 Classmates, friends, and brothers-in-arms. I do not forget, I will never forget. ------------------- ROBERT NELSON MORDEN PFC - E2 - Marine Corps - Regular Length of service 0 years His tour began on Dec 19, 1967 Casualty was on Feb 8, 1968 In QUANG TRI, SOUTH VIETNAM HOSTILE, GROUND CASUALTY MULTIPLE FRAGMENTATION WOUNDS Body was recovered -------------------------------- LLOYD WHITFIELD MOORE HN - E3 - Navy - Regular Length of service 1 years His tour began on Jan 15, 1968 Casualty was on Feb 25, 1968 In QUANG TRI, SOUTH VIETNAM HOSTILE, GROUND CASUALTY GUN, SMALL ARMS FIRE Body was recovered --------------------------------- RICHARD MICHAEL CAMPBELL SGT - E5 - Army - Selective Service 9th Infantry Division Length of service 1 years His tour began on Apr 2, 1968 Casualty was on May 7, 1968 In GIA DINH, SOUTH VIETNAM HOSTILE, GROUND CASUALTY DROWNED, SUFFOCATED Body was recovered --------------------------------- CRAIG PHILIP AVERILL CPL - E4 - Army - Regular 101st Airborne Division Length of service 1 years His tour began on Jun 12, 1967 Casualty was on Mar 26, 1968 In THUA THIEN, SOUTH VIETNAM Hostile, died of wounds, GROUND CASUALTY MULTIPLE FRAGMENTATION WOUNDS Body was recovered --------------------------------- GLENN BRANSON HAINES JR PFC - E3 - Army - Selective Service 18th Eng Bde Length of service 0 years His tour began on Nov 26, 1968 Casualty was on Mar 6, 1969 In , SOUTH VIETNAM Non-Hostile, died of illness/injury, GROUND CASUALTY ACCIDENTAL SELF-DESTRUCTION Body was recovered -------------------------------- JOE WOFFORD EUBANKS CAPT - O3 - Army - Regular 1st AVN BDE His tour began on Nov 13, 1971 Casualty was on Jun 2, 1972 In PLEIKU, SOUTH VIETNAM HOSTILE, HELICOPTER - CREW AIR LOSS, CRASH ON LAND Body was recovered

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 30, 2015 04:42 PM (F2IAQ)

313 Falcons take Beasley (OLB, Clempson) at #8 Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 08:59 PM (nL0sw) Clempson?.....'round here that's Clem's son.

Posted by: BignJames at April 30, 2015 04:42 PM (j7iSn)

314 Haven't seen the documentary, but it's been on my list. The trailer led for the documentary on the "Kill Team" murders in Afghanistan. The abandonment of the people there pisses me off.

Posted by: junior at April 30, 2015 04:44 PM (2/wDX)

315 dis-effing-astrous, no effing $hit. one more thing to rectify, if / when opportunity offers.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 30, 2015 04:44 PM (go6ud)

316 Holy sh*t Detective Hammer. So sorry.

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at April 30, 2015 04:45 PM (KG0mU)

317 The Last Days In Vietnam is a great documentary.

Posted by: Witchfinder at April 30, 2015 04:46 PM (MsFCE)

318 Posted by: no good deed at April 30, 2015 09:35 PM (GgxVX)

Baltimore is going to get interesting over the weekend I fear.

Chris Plante said this morning that he really wished that the Democrat (Brown) had won the race for governor in 2014, because then you would have had a clear Democrat MD cadre (Governor, Mayor, City Council, US Senators, and most of the MD Representatives).

As it is I feel sorry for Hogan because he will wind up blamed for everything in the long run.

Posted by: Hrothgar [/u][/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 04:46 PM (ftVQq)

319 #15 pick, Chargers take Melvin Gordon (RB, Wisconsin)

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:46 PM (nL0sw)

320 Hammer, May your battles rest in peace.

Posted by: SMFH at it all at April 30, 2015 04:46 PM (OsWis)

321 though in perfect frankness I expect to spend my effing "retirement years" in an environment somewhere between 1984 and the road warrior. good luck with that, amirite ?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 30, 2015 04:48 PM (go6ud)

322 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 30, 2015 09:42 PM (F2IAQ)


The ones that really hit me hardest are those that barely got in country and were lost.

Bless them all!

Kcuf all Dem politicians!

Posted by: Hrothgar [/u][/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 04:51 PM (ftVQq)

323 Sorry. MikeH. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 30, 2015 04:51 PM (B451F)

324 Hrothgar, I'll be staying away from all urban centers over the weekend.

Posted by: no good deed at April 30, 2015 04:52 PM (GgxVX)

325 Houston takes Kevin Johnson (CB, Wake Forest) at #16

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:53 PM (nL0sw)

326 Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 30, 2015 09:48 PM (go6ud)

"Voting" didn't work.

Still working on the "Praying" route.

Looks like the "Buy More Ammo" concept is worth pursuing!

Posted by: Hrothgar [/u][/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 04:54 PM (ftVQq)

327 Should have liberated Cuba first, for no other reason than the supply lines are a hell of a lot shorter.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 30, 2015 04:55 PM (JgC5a)

328 Posted by: no good deed at April 30, 2015 09:52 PM (GgxVX)

A wise move in a fundamentally transformed Amerikkka!

Posted by: Hrothgar [/u][/i][/b][/s] at April 30, 2015 04:55 PM (ftVQq)

329 Should have liberated Cuba first, for no other reason than the supply lines are a hell of a lot shorter. Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 30, 2015 09:55 PM (JgC5a) And they had some really great classic cars

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at April 30, 2015 04:56 PM (R8hU8)

330 Classmates, friends, and brothers-in-arms.
I do not forget, I will never forget.
Posted by: Mike Hammer



They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at April 30, 2015 04:58 PM (+1T7c)

331 49ers take Arik Armstead (DE, Oregon) at #17

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 04:58 PM (nL0sw)

332 Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at April 30, 2015 09:41 PM (yxw0r)

I think I get what they're saying and they're kinda correct.

People came out OKAY but were affected and different than if they hadn't had to go. I think that happens to any soldier/sailor/marine in war.

It is a fact though that a large number of military men from the Viet Nam era have/had greater problems adjusting to life back home and some still do.

In fact, anyone wanting to show their appreciation and understanding to a Viet Vet, give to the Salvation Army or any other org that takes care of the homeless. Large numbers of vets from all wars wind up on the street, due to drugs, alcohol, inability to cope with the world, loss of hope, loss of soul. Lots of reasons and many may seem they're own fault. Still who knows if they hadn't had to go and hadn't faced what they faced and hadn't been spit on when they came  home, how different would they be now?

Back then a lot of people in this country turned their backs or outright jeered at returning vets. For a long time being a vet was to be suspected of some sort of fault or failure. Lot's of guys took it personal.

I and lot of others didn't (and still don't much person to person. here is different) talk about being there and anything that went on after we got home. Just tried to get back to living. But it was difficult at times and there wasn't many to talk to about it.

Well times have changed in that regard. And too bad that just when it did we got conned by South State Street 2 card Monte dealer and taken for all our pennies.

There's people got some dues to pay. I hope I get to see it.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 05:00 PM (zRby/)

333 3 Card Monte. Geez.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 05:04 PM (zRby/)

334 332 Back then a lot of people in this country turned their backs or outright jeered at returning vets. For a long time being a vet was to be suspected of some sort of fault or failure. Lot's of guys took it personal. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 10:00 PM (zRby/) Veterans probably have an easier time reintegrating into society if they are celebrated as heroes rather than condemned as baby-killers.

Posted by: rickl at April 30, 2015 05:05 PM (sdi6R)

335 Chiefs take Marcus Peters (CB, UWash) at #18 Risky pick, he was kicked off the team at Washington

Posted by: Country Singer at April 30, 2015 05:05 PM (nL0sw)

336 There is a nood. 

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 30, 2015 05:06 PM (B451F)

337 Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 10:00 PM (zRby/)

That's more of what I meant but I can't write for shit. I knew quite a few guys who died from the effects of Agent Orange with cancer, etc. and a few years ago I found that it caused heart disease as well. Go to any V.A. and look at the guys from Afghanistan and Iraq now that that king putt gave it all back. Seems to be for nothing and it gets old watching it. What goes around comes around takes a long time.

Posted by: dartist at April 30, 2015 05:14 PM (ahBY0)

338 My in-laws were refugees. When the war ended my Father in Law spent 3 years in one of the concentration camps. eventually he escapted and they fled on a small boat with a dozen or so others. they only had a couple day of provision for what was supposed to be a 3 day trip. The motor broke and they spend 13 days floating at see. 2 people died before an Esso tanker that was off course happened upon them. My FIL is a doctor and MIL is a pharmacist. So they fled communism with the clothes on their back and came to the US&A and are 1%ers. They say living well is the best revenge. Eat it commies.

Posted by: Blooshier at April 30, 2015 05:14 PM (p2q3U)

339 @252 I don't know how old you are, but everybody back then rolled their eyes at the administration's feeble attempt at justifying that whole incident. ------------------- And Second Tonkin was even worse. There's still some back and forth over whether the first incident actually happened. But no one at all believes that the second incident occurred.

Posted by: junior at April 30, 2015 05:16 PM (2/wDX)

340 Never forget that Dan 'Courage' Rather claimed that one in three of the homeless on the streets was a Vietnam vet in "The Wall Within." 

As to the actual number of homeless.  Well there was homeless activist Snyder, guy who abandoned his wife, wore an Army fatigue shirt, and later committed suicide, claimed there were three million.  In 1984 HUD estimated between 250,000 and 350,000.  The 1990 US Census tried to count them and only found 228,621.  In all of the US.

The state of Missouri did try to count how many of the homeless were Vietnam vets.  They found the numbers so small to conclude there was no need for a special agency.  Another finding from Missouri they found the Vietnam vets had a higher employment rate than their peers who did not serve.

The above information was extracted from pg 314 - 317 from Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of its Heroes and its History by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley.  1998.  Verity Press.  Dallas, TX.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 05:16 PM (CwVOr)

341 Affirm. Water, food, ammo. Others as opportunity presents.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 30, 2015 05:24 PM (go6ud)

342 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 30, 2015 10:16 PM (CwVOr)

Knowing what I would think that you would know by now of the honesty and integrity of the Government AND other reporting agencies/Media, why would you think that any of those statistics have/had any positive correlation with the truth?

We know NOW that the Government lies. Regrettably, that is also true for PAST Governments and Media.

There are a LOT of homeless vets.

So pick a number between the advocates' millions and the pooh poohers in Government(who have a vested interest in NOT finding any homeless at all) who say none and you come out with something close to the truth.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 30, 2015 05:31 PM (zRby/)

343 happy vietnam war protestors day april 30 1975

Posted by: captain*arizona at April 30, 2015 08:19 PM (NRYwd)

344 Welcome back my friends to the DOOM that never ends. Isn't today Commie Day?

Posted by: Citizen X at May 01, 2015 02:25 AM (7ObY1)

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