November 28, 2008

Analyzing The Enemy [Vinnie]
— Open Blog

Bill Roggio offers up a heaping helping of excellent analysis.

h/t to Wolverine in the headline comments, which I didn't read, but he deserves it anyway thanks to Methos in the comments.

Update: The American Traitor reaction to the attack.

Update: Taj Mahal hotel finally retaken.

Posted by: Open Blog at 02:54 PM | Comments (38)
Post contains 52 words, total size 1 kb.

1 And this is why I stopped relying on TV for news.  Thanks to Bill for the compilation and to Vinnie for pointing the way (actually, Wolverine in the Top Headlines thread, too).

Posted by: Methos at November 28, 2008 02:58 PM (YgvQd)


I speculated over at Hot Air that possibly the ISI knew of this plan, but considered it juvenile and simply indulged the plotters, perhaps hoping that they would get bored, forget their plans and go away.

How many of the ISI watched the events unfold, and still maintained bladder control? My guess is that the visit by the head of the ISI will result in many ISI (and other) heads on display in Islamabad.

I think that, over the nest year or so, we will also see many madrassas, clerics and other Muslim activists meet with untimely, unfortunate and rather improbable ends.

Posted by: Arbalest at November 28, 2008 03:02 PM (SeimD)

3 Proper credit given, Methos, thanks. Had to work today, just getting up to speed on the goings on in the 'sphere.

Posted by: Vinnie at November 28, 2008 03:17 PM (idf83)


All of the pictures I’ve seen of the Mumbai murderers show that they are used to being fashionably dressed and suggest that they are well-fed, further suggesting that they are (all?) Pakistanis, most (all?) of whom who lived a middle-class life, and mostly in Britain.

Perhaps there are more pictures with more information, but this is the way I’m betting.

This proves that "poverty causes jihadism" and "Muslims are victims" are lies, nothing more.

Posted by: Arbalest at November 28, 2008 03:19 PM (SeimD)

5 I think people high up in the Indian government are thinking "OK, maybe that wasn't enough to start a war with Pakistan, but should we wait until they do something that is enough?"

Posted by: eman at November 28, 2008 03:19 PM (PI3vs)

6 I found myself watching CNN for the first time in a while.  Experts: we have to understand them, we have to get at the root causes, more carpet bombing will not work. Jeez, Mogadishu all over again.

There is one, and only one, leader who has gone after these guys with gusto, George Bush.  Now they know they are only going to get the FBI again.

Posted by: Robert at November 28, 2008 03:42 PM (VotgB)

7 Though some would like to believe it is not true, this strike shows dedicated asswipes with normal weapons are at least as lethal as suicide bombers. And the only counter is armed an armed citizenry to minimize the carnage. The terrorist manual was born in Israel so they turned to bombs knowing a guy with a gun would be thwarted since armed citezens are evereywhere.

They now see that in less armed nations an AK is all you need for a 30 plus death count.

These guys had explosives but the death toll was exaserbated by the lack of resistance at the begining.

Since the Govt can't be everwhere the threat of armed citezens needs to be there if we are going to fight terrorism.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at November 28, 2008 03:50 PM (MOdlB)

8 Well some of the Indian press are starting to ask hard questions. %5Cpapers30%5Cpaper2946.html

If terrorism has no reason and logic and no ‘root causes’, if the terrorists carry out these operations to cause destruction, if we are all enemies without any discrimination, if the innocent citizens are to pay the price for perceived atrocities of the state, it is time to do away with the traditional definitions of terrorism and recognise that this terror is there simply for destruction, to destroy and destabilise the country and to inflict psychological damage on us, the ‘enemies’.  We did not wish to be ‘enemies’, but since we have been constructed that way, should not we take our roles as ‘enemies’ a bit more seriously? I cannot speak the language of peace and love anymore. If the war is forced upon us, we will have to accept it.

I am afraid it will not soothe my senses anymore by being told again and again that religions stand for peace and ‘some people’ are misusing religion and misquoting scriptures. The problem is that the supply of ‘some people’ seems to be never ending. These ‘some people’ are not just a few people but like amoeba they keep multiplying.   I am afraid I will not feel calmed tomorrow when I hear that we should try to understand the ‘root causes’, the injustices and anger that force people on the path of terror. I ask today, as I rage at these terrorists who may not even be citizens of my country, how dare you speak for people of this country?

I reject the guilt, shame and tolerance today for it makes me your ‘enemy’. You punish our innocent people for crimes of a few; and scream hoarse when the ‘innocent’ in your community are held up because of your barbarity. You reject our diversity (of our opinion and politics as well that has defended you and stood for you always), you do not like it when we have spoken with different voices.  I, therefore, accept the ‘national identity’ you have bestowed on me as your ‘enemy’, an identity that I had always questioned in order to understand you and your problems.

Posted by: Travis at November 28, 2008 03:55 PM (GqpEk)

9 Hey, I saw your site listed in Urbanconservative. Would you consider subscribing/linking to my site? I appreciate it very much.

Posted by: newrepublican at November 28, 2008 04:09 PM (ZSA03)

10 Can we get some lib celebrities to start blaming the victim here and offering condolences to the slain terrorists (Richard Gere, cough cough)

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 28, 2008 04:09 PM (yrMek)

11 Holy Crap Batman!
Let's turn Western Pok-e-stan into glass! Pow!

Posted by: sickinmass at November 28, 2008 04:50 PM (/i4dU)

12 It is hard to believe they are stilling fighting at the Taj. These guys really dug in. The intel when this is over will be interesting. Booby traps etc.

Posted by: Wolverine at November 28, 2008 05:17 PM (J7EkY)

13 Times of India now reports all terrorists in the Taj  dead

Posted by: Wolverine at November 28, 2008 05:20 PM (J7EkY)

14 or not - these guys drive me crazy - time for bed - pick this up in the AM

Posted by: Wolverine at November 28, 2008 05:24 PM (J7EkY)

15 The real intel crawl will be thru the cell phone and IM client networks. 

The gunners were supported by handlers and spotters who were blending into the crowds.

Good guy control of the cell networks is must - gotta have a finger on the big red button.  Force the yahoos to bring their own commo freq/nets - (more planning, more $, real time tracking becomes possible, etc.)

Another thing I noticed - clear the streets and setting a perimeters goes both ways, the business end of the gun goes towards the known bad guys and the great unknown.

Posted by: Jean at November 28, 2008 05:44 PM (HVRSA)

16 #5, the current Indian government might do that - however when the BJP cleans their clock in the next election - the next attack will result in a far different response.

If I were the Indians, I would make a public request for Washington to provide one of those missile shields were passing out in Europe and Israel.  Call the Paki's bluff next time and see how serious Obama is about being a friend to India.

Posted by: Jean at November 28, 2008 05:48 PM (HVRSA)

17 the great GREAT roggio wrote: “The Mumbai attack is something different. Foreign assault teams that likely trained and originated from outside the country infiltrated a major city to conduct multiple attacks on carefully chosen targets." and this is WRONG. this happened in iraq for years. repeat: for years iraq had foreign assault teams trained and originated from outside the country infiltrating iraq's major cities to conduct multiple attacks on carefully chosen targets.

yes, roggio later adds:  Al Qaeda and other terror groups have not used multiple assault teams to attack multiple targets simultaneously in a major city outside of a war zone.but muslims define all of the West which is not under muslim rule as a war zone. dar el harb.  that's why they make these horrific attacks against civilian targets in baghdad and london and DC and NYC and beslan and thailand, etc: because to them we're all only deserving of subjugation or death.

Posted by: reliapundit at November 28, 2008 06:00 PM (Hhqr7)


I suspect that, despite the Pakistani government's pleas of innocence, we'll be seeing the following headline here quote often:

"ISI Guys Killed by Overwhelming Indian Food Spices and Indian Special Op Forces, But Mostly By Special Op Forces"

Posted by: Barney Stinson at November 28, 2008 06:09 PM (pfStM)


#8 If the war is forced upon us, we will have to accept it.

This is the most eloquent explanation I've read of the reasons why we must fight terrorism.  The good news is that again, the world has been reminded that there is a group of people who have dedicated themselves and their lives to the destruction of everyone else.  We have elected a black man whose father was a Moslem so the white-imperialist-colonialist-oppressor argument has been blunted.  The stark truth is emerging again for everyone to see: no one can run away from the challenge that Islam presents to everyone else in the world today.  Obama will have to confront the same evil that Bush inherited from Clinton and will come to learn that we must attack our attackers with the same relentless determination that they have shown. 

As Sherman said:  War is the remedy my enemy has chosen and I say let him have all of it he shall have.

Posted by: 7HEAVENS at November 28, 2008 06:10 PM (oIvn7)

20 also - the difference between an assault team and a bomb/suicide bomb team is IMHO silly - they have used this tactic (multiple/simultaneous/coordinated/team attacks in non-war zones) in london and bangkok and beslan and elsewhere.

the problem is we are fighting this war  - WW4 - against an enemy which is (as anthony blair said after 9/11) not limited by anything except their means.

any weapon they can get their hands on is fair use against any target they can manage to stage an attack on for maximum effect/terror.

this enemy is fueled by totalitarian islam and until we erase that ideology from the face of the earth there will be more 9/11's and beslan's and mumbai's.

repeat: the root cause is the ROP itself.

and trying to assign attacks like mumbai's to one faction or cell or another.

and debating if this attack is similar to others or represents a new plateau is a silly waste of time and misdirects the public's attention from effectively dealing with the root cause.

Posted by: reliapundit at November 28, 2008 06:14 PM (Hhqr7)

21 we can deal with the root cause in many ways - most of them non-military.

sure: many if not moist iraqis are on our side NOW, but how long will that last?

i hope it lasts. i hope the transformational power of democracy weans them away from the ROP.

that's the real goal; that's why al Qaeda fought so hard to stop us.

we need to tame islam.

and we can do that by demanding an end to islamo-misogyny. we should no more accepot this than slavery.

jihadists arent born,

they are raised/taught in the islamo-misogynist home to dehumanize the women in their own family. the next step is teaching them to haste men not in their sect.

and murder people not of their faith.

if we save them from the first step then other levels won't take as well.

the child abuse and abuse of sisters/daughters/wives is what creates in them the diathesis for jihadoterror.

Posted by: reliapundit at November 28, 2008 06:15 PM (Hhqr7)

22 Travis, thank you for the post. Why is it foreigners speak english more effectively than us. I really thought that was an eloquent declaration of war. These thugs are crying peace and shooting at the same time. One unmistakable thought keeps coming to my mind. How can any nation have open and undocumented borders with this as a threat? Maybe the idealism of all people are basically good and want to get along will finally be questioned.

Posted by: locus ceruleus at November 28, 2008 06:32 PM (e2mBS)

23 Sooner or later someone's going to start a little "ethnic tidying up" on the aherents of the "Religion of Peace" in their nation's midst.  Well, I guess Serbia already did.  But I can definitely see a repeat coming, and likely sooner than later.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at November 28, 2008 07:10 PM (RWmCt)

24 Obama will have to confront the same evil that Bush inherited from Clinton and will come to learn that we must attack our attackers with the same relentless determination that they have shown. 

Posted by: 7HEAVENS at November 28, 2008 11:10 PM (oIvn7)

Jimmy Carter never learned that lesson. The old fool is still running around trying to connect with peoples souls.

Maybe the idealism of all people are basically good and want to get along will finally be questioned.

Posted by: locus ceruleus at November 28, 2008 11:32 PM (e2mBS)

All people basically good? I am not a Christian, but one thing those boys nailed was the concept of original sin. Children are born evil, screaming and angry tyrants willing to make your life a misery if you don't get them what they want. Socializing them into being civilized is the primary job of a parent. If they fail at it, you have a savage with a Gameboy.

Posted by: Travis at November 28, 2008 07:11 PM (GqpEk)

25 What India really needs is more stringent gun control so that situations like these dont happen again.

Posted by: Lestor Nestez at November 28, 2008 08:05 PM (mZ543)

26 Let me say this.  Fuck Pakistan.  What they have allowed to fester, is a declaration of war against India. 

It would be no different if the US allowed some jackasses in North Dakota to have free reign to murder innocent Canadian civilians.  Pakistan must come to heel, or face the consequences.


Posted by: Kestrel♠ at November 28, 2008 09:12 PM (0ry+S)

27 There will be no more Muslim terrorists when there are no more Muslims.

Just sayin'

Posted by: Trimegistus at November 28, 2008 09:14 PM (V7sUe)


The only way this shit is ever going to stop is by going after the nations that either sponsor these assholes and the ones who allow these assholes to hide in their midst. Currently the two major sponsors are Iran and Syria, the nations allowing them to hide in their midst are Somalia and Pakistan. In addition the assholes are getting funding from many of the ME kingdoms and in some cases, even the U.S.


A terrorist with no funding is strictly a local problem. A terrorist with no country to hide in is one who is soon caught. Bush understood this but after invading Iraq he allowed the WOT to be set aside for “nation building”. Something that is long, costly, and not a program the U.S. has performed well in the past.


What he should have done after Baghdad fell was to consolidate the armed forces and go after Iran at the same time the Syrians were hit by the Israelis.


And Pakistan? Cheney should have carried through with his threat.


Sadly, we have elected another “we will have peace” socialist and things are just going to get worse.

Posted by: Vic at November 29, 2008 12:20 AM (Qd7GC)


@26: Kestrel -

Or like if Mexico allowed criminal cartels and military units to cross over into the US and commit acts of aggression?

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at November 29, 2008 12:21 AM (RWmCt)


#27  The only way this shit is ever going to stop is by going after the nations that either sponsor these assholes and the ones who allow these assholes to hide in their midst.

We are locked in a Hundred Years War with an enemy as determined as any we have ever faced and there is no escaping it.  They cannot be negotiated with, bribed or pacified.  Coming to accept that fact is the first step without which we shall never prevail.  The main enemy here is our own Liberl Media and Liberal Politicians who are now clearly committed to Obama.  When it becomes obvious that the time has come when he must deal with them and can no longer escape his responsibility to "protect and defend" we must  support him no matter what.   First order of business:  Stop the Iranian Nuclear Bomb the way Hillary said she would do.  The Iranians have acted swiftly, boldly, and wrecklessly and must pay the price for they represent a threat to us like no other on earth right now.  When Israel goes for it (and they must) we must ensure their success.  Perhaps a regime change could stop them but there are no signs of it now.  Get ready gentlemen because a show is coming to Iran we have been waiting to watch for the last five years and it is coming soon.  Mumbai reminds the world again that these people will not go away and must be dealt with if we don't want to live in the world of  Dhimmtude they are busy creating for us.  That is a good thing.


Posted by: 7HEAVENS at November 29, 2008 01:12 AM (oIvn7)



We are indeed in a war, but for the time being we are goping to have at least 4 years of head in the sand.

Posted by: Vic at November 29, 2008 03:32 AM (Qd7GC)



The terrorists will force our hand like they foced even Bill Clinton to do something, rotten coward that he was.  In the book Dereliction of Duty, Col. Patterson writes of the many chances Bill had to hit Bin Ladin and didn't do it.   It becomes clear that the reason he didn't was that he was a simple coward and  afraid to hit someone who might hit back.  Bill was intimidated by the terrorists and looking for ways to avoid being directly responsible for killing them.  Obama may be this way too, but at least he has seen us go after them and the sky hasn't fallen.  I think Obama is made of  tougher stuff.  We shall see how he handles Iran ...

Posted by: 7HEAVENS at November 29, 2008 06:48 AM (oIvn7)

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