January 31, 2016

An Interesting Idea: Free Tuition At Elite Schools, Paid By Their Massive Endowments (CBD)
— Open Blogger

Meritocracy: Will Harvard Become Free and Fair? is an interesting article with some even more interesting links. My favorite is to another article by the author, ""Paying Tuition to a Giant Hedge Fund," which is exactly what paying Harvard tuition is!

As so many of us know, higher education has become something rather different than what it was intended to be. Clearly it is a moneymaker, non-profit status be damned. And of course the indoctrination of our youth is funded by this seemingly unending and ever expanding source of money.

And for an interesting take on the current fascist impulse of feminism and the SJWs, as manifested on campus, here is Glenn Reynolds: Turning tide in war on college men?

And don't miss our very own tsrblke's take on the origins of the War On Men. A Thought on @instapundit's USA Today Editorial

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:13 AM | Comments (263)
Post contains 171 words, total size 1 kb.

1 The bubble's a bursting.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 31, 2016 07:15 AM (kTF2Z)

2 And I even read the content

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 31, 2016 07:15 AM (kTF2Z)

3 I've tool all of my kids that it's a scholarship or trade school. University tuition is just to high.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 31, 2016 07:16 AM (kTF2Z)

4 Dammit told not tool

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 31, 2016 07:17 AM (kTF2Z)

5
   Would be nice if higher education were allowed to resume it's intended role rather than the travesty it is now.

   Isn't hardly room for the serious student right now.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 31, 2016 07:18 AM (P/8aq)

6 I think schools like Harvard and Yale should have 50% of their attendance by inner city poor all paid for by the school.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 07:18 AM (t2KH5)

7 Obviously my white male privelege has allowed me to have all of the comments to myself. We need a system to redistribute comments more fairly.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 31, 2016 07:19 AM (kTF2Z)

8 With the phony rape culture today I'm not sure I'd want my sons on any campus.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 31, 2016 07:22 AM (kTF2Z)

9 Much like sending money to PBS affiliates when so much dough is "endowed" by taxpayers and lucrative foundations.

Posted by: DM at January 31, 2016 07:22 AM (j/tOh)

10 When I was young there was a TV show named The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis.  Where a young man graduated from HS and went off to a local school and could afford it w/o a loan and his father ran a local grocery store (before chain stores).


What happened to those days?

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 07:23 AM (t2KH5)

11 And have to pay Bill or Hildabeast a quarter million for a speach? Right.

Posted by: Skip at January 31, 2016 07:24 AM (hk3Fb)

12 Sure, make Harvard "free."

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 07:24 AM (tv9zS)

13 Yeah, that's a nice idea and all, but, this is OUR money!
XOX
Harvard

Posted by: Bruce at January 31, 2016 07:26 AM (8ikIW)

14 Education is a collection of products and services. Let the Market handle it. Sitting in class in a big brick building is no longer a good idea.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 07:28 AM (MQEz6)

15 A two year trade school for something like plumbing or welding makes a lot more economic sense right now.


A 4 year degree in "general studies" never reaches payback.  You're better off just going out and getting a job.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 07:28 AM (t2KH5)

16 The key is to release businesses from the college degree prison.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 07:29 AM (MQEz6)

17 "I think schools like Harvard and Yale should have 50% of their attendance by inner city poor all paid for by the school." Plus, 25 additional percent Illegal Alien, and 25% refugees. Within those groups, at least 20% transgendered.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 31, 2016 07:30 AM (ptqRm)

18 Get rid of all government involvement. Make government schools illegal.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 07:30 AM (MQEz6)

19 Great idea but when was the last time that leftists put their money where their mouth were.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at January 31, 2016 07:30 AM (AhyHb)

20 "Sitting in class in a big brick building is no longer a good idea." The free market will teach your ass real good and hard. Fast.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 07:30 AM (tv9zS)

21 Actually, some of the Ivies are already headed this way. My niece just graduated from Harvard a couple years ago and she paid less, far less, that her two brothers who went to public universities. Most of her scholarship was based on her parents very middle class income.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2016 07:31 AM (/tuJf)

22 16 The key is to release businesses from the college degree prison.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 12:29 PM (MQEz6)


Do you know why large businesses like college degrees?  It isn't because you need the degree or actually learn anything.  Its because it is a sorting mechanism that does not involve race.  Only a few professions actually require a degree.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 07:32 AM (t2KH5)

23 10 When I was young there was a TV show named The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis. Where a young man graduated from HS and went off to a local school and could afford it w/o a loan and his father ran a local grocery store (before chain stores). What happened to those days? Posted by: Vic-we have no party at January 31, 2016 12:23 PM (t2KH5) ****** Half the kids turned into Maynard G "You Rang?" Krebs, who lost it anytime anyone mentioned "Work!!??!"

Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at January 31, 2016 07:32 AM (NqQAS)

24 >>>When I was young there was a TV show named The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis. Where a young man graduated from HS and went off to a local school and could afford it w/o a loan and his father ran a local grocery store (before chain stores).
What happened to those days?
Posted by: Vic-we have no party at January 31, 2016 12:23 PM (t2KH5)<<<



Unpossible! Nobody is going to believe that...


... there was no tv when you were young.

Posted by: zombie Abe Vigoda at January 31, 2016 07:33 AM (H9MG5)

25 I spent four years getting a Chemistry degree and roughly a third of that time was spent in classes that benefitted the school and not me. That was a long time ago and I bet it is much worse now.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 07:33 AM (MQEz6)

26 10  Half the kids turned into Maynard G "You Rang?" Krebs, who lost it anytime anyone mentioned "Work!!??!"

Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at January 31, 2016 12:32 PM (NqQAS)


He probably got drafted. That series ran in the years just before the massive drafts started.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 07:34 AM (t2KH5)

27 22 16 The key is to release businesses from the college degree prison. Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 12:29 PM (MQEz6) Do you know why large businesses like college degrees? It isn't because you need the degree or actually learn anything. Its because it is a sorting mechanism that does not involve race. Only a few professions actually require a degree. Posted by: Vic-we have no party at January 31, 2016 12:32 PM (t2KH5) Yeah, I know. That reason is why the prison is pretty tough to escape.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 07:35 AM (MQEz6)

28 #4 and 'too' not 'to'

Posted by: grammer nazi, not spelling nazi at January 31, 2016 07:35 AM (CYS6Q)

29 I know many recent graduates with varying degrees. Most unemployed, all looking into the trades.

Posted by: flyover at January 31, 2016 07:35 AM (SVz6E)

30 "I spent four years getting a Chemistry degree and roughly a third of that time was spent in classes that benefitted the school and not me. " As we've all come to know, a lot of college is wasted time spent making some profs seem worthy of their title. Shell game.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 07:35 AM (tv9zS)

31
   Never went to college, a high school education provided me with an adequate foundation for the success I've had.

   We enjoy a pretty comfortable lifestyle AFTER winning our personal war on poverty.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 31, 2016 07:37 AM (P/8aq)

32 >>> Half the kids turned into Maynard G "You Rang?" Krebs, who lost it anytime anyone mentioned "Work!!??!" <<<<

He finally got a job on a small tour boat in Hawaii.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at January 31, 2016 07:37 AM (tEDMc)

33 There was a time, not too long ago, that required if you wanted to avail yourself of an in-state tuition at VPI (now Va Tech) , and were a male, you had to be a member of the Corps of Cadets. It was your contribution. That practice was ended in '66 I think, with the rise of the snowflakes.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 31, 2016 07:37 AM (b0Mq7)

34 He probably got drafted. That series ran in the years just before the massive drafts started. Posted by: Vic-we have no party at January 31, 2016 12:34 PM (t2KH5) *** LOL! Or he could have been excused from military service due to an old bongo drum injury . . .

Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at January 31, 2016 07:38 AM (NqQAS)

35 When my brother was getting his PhD in Chemistry at Ga Tech he spent most of his time teaching class for the Chemistry Professor.  And as I understand it, that is common.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 07:40 AM (t2KH5)

36 I got all kinds of things with my massive endowment.

Posted by: Peter North at January 31, 2016 07:40 AM (kpqmD)

37 Well, maybe if the Norks nuke Japan next week, the education crisis will take a new turn.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 07:40 AM (MQEz6)

38 I remember thinking college was a waste in Eng. Lit. What a fvcking joke. Write what he wants to hear. Our final was watching One Flew over the Cookoo's Nest.

Posted by: Infidel at January 31, 2016 07:43 AM (MtMEd)

39 "I spent four years getting a Chemistry degree and roughly a third of that time was spent in classes that benefited the school and not me. "

and, you should be proud of your 4 years, many (many) people could/would not accomplish what you did! Nor, would they even try.

Thank goodness we have people like you that are persistent and consistent.

Posted by: cind at January 31, 2016 07:43 AM (nRbbW)

40 I like Instapundit's idea: make the colleges underwrite the college loans.
MUCH better incentive to prepare those students to get a well-paying job so they can pay back that loan!!!

Posted by: Lizzy [/i] at January 31, 2016 07:44 AM (NOIQH)

41 I don't think I used "interesting" enough in this post.

[please don't rat me out to the English Pedant League]

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 07:46 AM (Zu3d9)

42 I wonder if the non-white actors/artist who receive awards for their work in present times ever wonder if they really earned it or it was a "token award" to meet a quota??? Who am I kidding, all the affirmative action beneficiaries have no doubt they "earned" their places/positions. The soft bigotry of lowered expectations and all......

Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 07:46 AM (xVgrA)

43 Rice University was tuition-free till 1968, if you could get in.

Posted by: J Moses Browning at January 31, 2016 07:47 AM (VPgsA)

44 It seems unfortunate that young adults with little to no financial acumen are being herded into making one of the largest purchases of their lives, with nothing more than the encouragement of their peers and the sellers to base their decision one.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at January 31, 2016 07:48 AM (kKHcp)

45 The soft bigotry of lowered expectations and all...... THIS. How far we have fallen. *sadz*

Posted by: Infidel at January 31, 2016 07:49 AM (MtMEd)

46 one? that last word should be "on." Kollige didn't help me much.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at January 31, 2016 07:49 AM (kKHcp)

47 Here's another irony/oxymoron: "mandatory volunteering." My son just asked me if I thought that volunteering should be mandatory for credit in schools. Guess what my opinion was?

Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 07:51 AM (xVgrA)

48 Posted by: OneEyedJack at January 31, 2016 12:49 PM (kKHcp)

There are some things up with which I will not put....

Posted by: Pompous Grammar Pedant at January 31, 2016 07:52 AM (Zu3d9)

49 Here you go. An interesting article which interestingly enough confirms that Harvard and some other "elite" schools are getting creative with costs including covering tuition completely for kids from families that earn less than $65,000/year. You might find it interesting.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2016 07:52 AM (/tuJf)

50 I made $350,000 a year and only had to teach one class a week!
Ask me how!

Posted by: Perfesser Elizabeth "Pow Wow" Warren at January 31, 2016 07:53 AM (EDYaR)

51 The link might have been handy. http://tinyurl.com/op366mm

Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2016 07:55 AM (/tuJf)

52 What happened to those days? Posted by: Vic-we have no party Work?!

Posted by: Maynard G. Krebs at January 31, 2016 07:56 AM (FkBIv)

53 "y: J Moses Brownin" I like your handle.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 07:56 AM (tv9zS)

54 that is common.

Posted by: Vic-we have no party at January 31, 2016 12:40 PM (t2KH5)

RAs teach because many of them will be going into academia themselves, and supposedly need the experience. Also, they are usually doing current research, which is, supposedly, a way to transmit the newest knowledge to undergraduates.

Supposedly....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 07:56 AM (Zu3d9)

55   @  47

   In the Army we called that voluntold.  Everybody participated.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 31, 2016 07:57 AM (P/8aq)

56 >>> The link might have been handy. Interesting that you left it out the first time.

Posted by: fluffy at January 31, 2016 07:57 AM (AfsKp)

57 There are some things up with which I will not up with put.... Mom, is that you?

Posted by: Infidel at January 31, 2016 07:58 AM (MtMEd)

58 10 When I was young there was a TV show named The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis. Where a young man graduated from HS and went off to a local school and could afford it w/o a loan and his father ran a local grocery store (before chain stores).

What happened to those days?



public universities were a lot more heavily subsidized in the past, in the form of direct grants to the universities to subsidize the tuition


now, the subsidies are in the form of student loans that public universities fleece

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 08:00 AM (uZNvH)

59 Harvard is already mostly free.  There are few students paying much more than anyone at a State School.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at January 31, 2016 08:00 AM (MVitU)

60 I believe Rice was that way. If you were accepted school was tuition free. Books and room and board no. Get a STEM degree or learn a trade.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at January 31, 2016 08:01 AM (lQqij)

61 Our local Chamber of Commerce turned down a woman for the CEO position because she didn't have a college degree. She is a known quantity. Took a local wonderful charity from raising thousands a year to millions.

Posted by: tops at January 31, 2016 08:02 AM (AX1D8)

62 40 I like Instapundit's idea: make the colleges underwrite the college loans.
MUCH better incentive to prepare those students to get a well-paying job so they can pay back that loan!!!

Posted by: Lizzy at January 31, 2016 12:44 PM (NOIQH)


that sounds good in principle, but there are a lot of public universities, smaller ones, that are basically open enrollment who have regional missions to serve the area around them.  the quality of the students at these schools tend to be average or so, not the highly qualified ones that go to the elite schools.  so if you make it riskier for these smaller universities to accept borderline students, they will just respond by raising admissions standards and shutting out this class of students.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 08:03 AM (uZNvH)

63 Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 01:00 PM (uZNvH)

And it is in their financial interest to extend a four year degree to five or six years.

How many dedicated and serious students have to take an extra semester or two, or go to another school just to get the credits necessary to graduate?

If any school offers fewer credits than is needed for every student to take what each needs during every semester, the school is perpetrating a fraud.

If # of students x 15 credits > # of credits offered, university president should go to jail.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 08:04 AM (Zu3d9)

64 As so many of us know, higher education has become something rather different than what it was intended to be. Clearly it is a moneymaker, non-profit status be damned. And of course the indoctrination of our youth is funded by this seemingly unending and ever expanding source of money. You're more forgiving than I am. I think most elite universities were started as glorified prep schools and fulfilled that function, more than any other one, for most of their existence. The most significant difference today is they've traded a religious skew for a political one. According to surveys, the average student also spends fewer hours studying than he would have a few decades ago, though that's across the board, not just at the top schools. Most of the elite schools actually are pretty cheap nowadays if you're genuinely poor or middle class, due to scholarships. It's an upper middle class family that's going to get hit with a big tuition bill.

Posted by: AD at January 31, 2016 08:05 AM (QWY55)

65 Life is a sonoavbitch. Smacks you up the head on a daily basis.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 08:05 AM (tv9zS)

66 Speaking of school....my son had a math problem that was worded horribly. He is in third grade. Michael was count his rock collection and had x amount of granite rocks and y amount of geodes. His brother found ? Rocks in the front yard. How many rocks did Michael find? To me the answer is either unknown or zero. We only know how many he counted. We have no idea how many he found, how many he bought, or how many he was given. I don't think that is the answer the teacher wants..........

Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 08:05 AM (xVgrA)

67 Another cool reason I endorsed Hillary Clinton is 'cause no one can tell is apart when our clothes are off.

Posted by: Ron Jeremy at January 31, 2016 08:05 AM (4nrGy)

68 After taking tens of thousands of dollars in tuition to get their almighty degrees the university does absolutely NOTHING to help that graduate find a job in their chosen field.

Posted by: subhuman taxpayer at January 31, 2016 08:08 AM (UXPjy)

69 Why can't we have a College Equivalency Degree?

Posted by: tops at January 31, 2016 08:10 AM (AX1D8)

70 " does absolutely NOTHING to help that graduate find a job in their chosen field" 0

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 08:10 AM (tv9zS)

71
And it is in their financial interest to extend a four year degree to five or six years.

How many dedicated and serious students have to take an extra semester or two, or go to another school just to get the credits necessary to graduate?

If any school offers fewer credits than is needed for every student to take what each needs during every semester, the school is perpetrating a fraud.

If # of students x 15 credits > # of credits offered, university president should go to jail.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 01:04 PM (Zu3d9)


well, not every student is a full-time student


in every place that I have seen, class scheduling is a very decentralized process, basically each department decides what classes to offer, with some oversight from deans and whatnot

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 08:10 AM (uZNvH)

72 Son just started College (again) in Denver on the GI bill... After his first 2 days of classes, he has pretty much decided to do an Electricians Apprenticeship... which I fully support. The environment is toxic... and one which, as a Man, he will either have to fight, or surrender to the PC SJW crowd which pervades his campus.

Posted by: Don Quixote at January 31, 2016 08:12 AM (f7rv6)

73 Here's another irony/oxymoron: "mandatory volunteering." My son just asked me if I thought that volunteering should be mandatory for credit in schools. Guess what my opinion was?
Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 12:51 PM (xVgrA)


Well, it worked so well for Castro's sugar industry after the revolution. 
Come to think of it, it worked well for Mao too. 

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 08:14 AM (q2o38)

74 "ell, not every student is a full-time student in every place that I have seen, class scheduling is a very decentralized process, basically each department decides what classes to offer, with some oversight from deans and whatnot" Right.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 08:14 AM (tv9zS)

75 Colleges "like" college degrees because of the SCOTUS Duke Power decision that effectively bans aptitude tests.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 31, 2016 08:14 AM (rs5De)

76 Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 01:10 PM (uZNvH)

I simplified the formula. But the point stands. It is in the schools' interest to keep students paying tuition and not taking enough credits to graduate on time.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 08:15 AM (Zu3d9)

77 Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 01:05 PM (xVgrA)

Are we supposed to assume that all the rocks in the collection were found in the front yard by Michael and his brother and that the brother gave all the rocks he found in the front yard to Michael?

Otherwise, the first part of the problem statement has nothing to do with the second (other than being about rocks).

Posted by: Burnt Toast at January 31, 2016 08:16 AM (T78UI)

78 Well I just went out and put the charger on the lawn tractor battery.  As I expected shorted cell from sitting all winter.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 08:18 AM (t2KH5)

79 I've said, if elected president, I would only allow public funding for school loans for schools that have an endowment greater than [insert cap of say $500 million] to the extent the loans are matched by the school itself.  Why give Harvard tens of millions in public dollars when they are sitting on billions? 

Posted by: oddnot not liking these times at January 31, 2016 08:18 AM (g1MTt)

80 The New York Times endorsed Kasich, so that settles it, no? We can take a break from our Trump/Cruz infighting and have a laugh because The Times hates them both equally. No surprise The Times endorsed Hillary. Open socialism is a Bridge Too Far. But won't The Times be embarrassed when Hillary has to leave the race over matters that The Times could have reported on but didn't. "All the news that fits!"

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 31, 2016 08:19 AM (rs5De)

81 Well, chemy?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 08:19 AM (tv9zS)

82 The New York Times endorsed Kasich, so that settles it, no?

The Boston Globe too. Their kind of Republican, a Democrat.

Posted by: Perfesser Elizabeth at January 31, 2016 08:20 AM (EDYaR)

83 Re colleje l'arnin' versus real-world... After three years of college-prep high school, I chose a college that had a year-'round trimester program. I set out to do five terms on-campus, three terms off (i.e. taking all my "summers" at once), then three terms back on to finish. I was an idiot. There were a dozen major problems with this plan that I only understood once I started living through it. I survived five terms in a row, but was seriously burned out by the end. We were required to do one off-campus term of work, and through a relative I got a job at a TV station, bottom rung, mailroom clerk and general go-fer, but I got to wander around and watch all the operations, so it was really great. I kept the job for ten months, then traveled around before going back to college. (A year off, yet kept my 2-S draft dodge. Guilty.) High school summers I'd worked at dirty, hard manual labor jobs, which was good, but while living at home. Not the same as being on my own out of town. Going back to college was an eye-opener. The college had changed a lot. Courses vital to my (stupid) major had been dropped. Old friends had dropped out. My advisor was gone. I was going to have to change majors and go at least five more terms to graduate! (I got to meet the future Mrs. Webworker, so, there's that.) But, mostly, time spent in the "real" world, even just that flunky job, paying for my own apartment (with only a little help from the 'rents), being on my own, showed me that college - at least, that liberal-arts college, was a terrible waste of my time and mind. After just two months, I quit. Probably could have done something wiser, but I had no good advice. A couple of years later I burned up some of my inheritance trying to start a crazy business. Terrible losses, big disaster, lost friends, ended in a half-million dollar lawsuit (which I "lost," but only charged the amount we really owed and which we'd offered before the suit), but, wow! was it educational! Don't think any business school could've given me what I learned doing that. FWIW

Posted by: mindful webworker - ejjimicated moron at January 31, 2016 08:21 AM (TUUTu)

84 If you wanted to break the power of elite schools and make them focus more academics, this is how you would do it: 1. The same way that the influence of prep schools was broken (yeah, I know, they give you a leg up, but not like they used to)--create a standardized test for college graduates that makes them directly comparable. This would be tricky, though, in that the Supreme Court has banned the use of IQ tests for hiring employees. Since the CFA and Series tests are used in hiring people for the finance industry (and some positions directly ask you for your SAT/GMAT scores), I assume there's something that they could put together, though. 2. Require them to spend the amounts of their endowments that all charities are normally required to distribute.

Posted by: AD at January 31, 2016 08:21 AM (QWY55)

85 My son just asked me if I thought that volunteering should be mandatory for credit in schools. Guess what my opinion was? Well, it worked so well for Castro's sugar industry after the revolution. Come to think of it, it worked well for Mao too. Colin Powell is big fan of "mandatory volunteering."

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 31, 2016 08:21 AM (FkBIv)

86 The Tuition is Too Damn High!

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at January 31, 2016 08:28 AM (oVJmc)

87 I simplified the formula. But the point stands. It is in the schools' interest to keep students paying tuition and not taking enough credits to graduate on time.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 01:15 PM (Zu3d9)



Well yes, to a degree


For the public schools that I have seen, they have a state board of governors/board of regents/whatever that sets system-wide policy such as "no undergraduate degree will have more than 180 credit-hours" or something along those lines, and they also keep tabs on things like 4-year/5-year graduation rates, a big job of a university's provost is to keep the university in line with the state board's academic mandates and policies.  so yeah you could have inept state boards and incompetent provosts and slimy administrators who foster an academic culture of bilking the student out of money for the sake of useless credit hours, or creating hurdles that keep the student a captive of the university for longer than necessary.  students who have a poor experience, however, will tend to vote with their feet and the university will suffer from lower enrollments.  so it is self-correcting to a degree.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 08:29 AM (uZNvH)

88 83 Well, chemy?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at January 31, 2016 01:19 PM (tv9zS)


???

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 08:31 AM (uZNvH)

89 Harvard. Giant hedge fund? Yup. **see who owns most, if not all, of the timber in New Zealand**

Posted by: teej at January 31, 2016 08:33 AM (O67g7)

90 Burnt toast, I have no F'ing idea??? The word problems are horrible, they are worded so half the time you don't know what they're asking exactly.

Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 08:33 AM (xVgrA)

91 so it is self-correcting to a degree.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 01:29 PM (uZNvH)

No, it isn't.

When the current financial structure of higher education funding is based on exactly what I described, there is no pressure to change it.

And....the schools carefully keep the process as byzantine as possible. High school seniors and their parents are outmatched by college administrators. They simply cannot make an informed decision based on the information provided.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 08:34 AM (Zu3d9)

92 now, the subsidies are in the form of student loans that public universities fleece
Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 01:00 PM (uZNvH)


So we should tax the middle class more to be on par with those enormous tax rates of the 50's?  Or people are endowing more now than in the 50's? Um, no.

Tuition is up because demand is up,  and when demand is up prices rise.

Easy guaranteed non-defaultable loans, when money is made easy like that it distorts the market.  It is a subset of inflation within the greater economy: it both devalues the worth of the money spent on tuition, but it also distorts the market by making so much money slosh around it makes sense to expand into more building (they will always fill up) various useless "studies" degrees (not everyone has the ability for a STEM or language arts or history /education/ civics) and hey, the demand for any degree is there).  Since it is free money, no reason not to continue to expand to absorb more of it.

And this does not take into account the supporting roles of housing, utilities, text books staff pensions and insurance on what is essentially a captive market.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 08:34 AM (q2o38)

93 lindafell, sounds like a common core math problem.

Posted by: Infidel at January 31, 2016 08:35 AM (MtMEd)

94 Make Hah-vahd open an HVAC school.

Within ten years it will be doing nothing but 'critical cooling theory' on the effects of high-capacity cooling plants on lesbian cohabitation and the civil rights issues stemming from them.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at January 31, 2016 08:39 AM (oVJmc)

95 Speaking of free tuition and socialists, check out the article at American Thinker about what a colossal loser Sanders has been his whole life:  Bernie Sanders before Political Life.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ztlqvow

Posted by: IrishEi at January 31, 2016 08:39 AM (E6RIJ)

96 Greetings: Memo from Hoffer: "What starts off as a cause, becomes a business, and ends up as a racket." I would be interested some sources of information on the growth of the various and sundry non-profits, NGOs, and foundations over the last 75 or so years. The wealth and sources of wealth of these mainly marched through institutions is, in my opinion, a kind of "Fifth Estate" extra-Constitutional branch of government because at their essence, what are NGOs except unelected legislators ???

Posted by: 11B40 at January 31, 2016 08:41 AM (evgyj)

97 Education needs to be deregulated. It is just products and services.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 08:42 AM (MQEz6)

98 Tuition is up because demand is up, and when demand is up prices rise. Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 01:34 PM (q2o3 No. Tuition is up because public money poured into schools is up. This is the same reason why textbooks have seen price rises that boggle the mind. The only way that a textbook could sell for $350 (which is beyond insane) is for there to be third party money pouring into its purchase. This has nothing to do with demand, per se. Even the prices for e-books (which should run around $3, given how little most coursework changes and the minimal cost of storing and transferring a file) are well beyond the offensive limit.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at January 31, 2016 08:42 AM (zc3Db)

99 Or people are endowing more now than in the 50's? I don't disagree with the rest of what you posted, but I think people are clearly endowing more than they did in the 1950s. The top schools are receiving gifts today that would make an endowment considered large even 25 years ago look like peanuts.

Posted by: AD at January 31, 2016 08:43 AM (QWY55)

100 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 01:34 PM (Zu3d9)


My point is that the full story is more complex than what you are seeing.  Not to justify or defend the status quo, trying to explain it a little more fully.


If your state board of regents isn't a complete bunch of toadies or incompetents, they *do* pressure the universities to limit the number of credit hours required for graduation, and they *do* pressure the universities to get their 4-yr/5-yr graduation rates up, often withholding funding if the rates aren't as high as the regents want them to be.


Now there is a lot of latitude in that, it is also often the case that the universities themselves set the standards by which they wish to be judged, and so they have an incentive to low-ball their own standards, and yes that often happens.  I do think universities ought to be put on a stricter leash.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 08:44 AM (uZNvH)

101 47 Here's another irony/oxymoron: "mandatory volunteering." I call it "compulsory volunteering." It's really just more free labor. Have the kids do the recycling work while municipal employees get paid overtime to watch (and boost their pensions).

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 08:45 AM (RcpcZ)

102 Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 01:34 PM (q2o3


I am not endorsing or defending the status quo, just trying to offer some information about it


Yeah student loans have ended up being a big scam I think, because it's basically considered "free money" from both the student's and the university's point of view


POP is right, tuition is rising because of more of this "free money"

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 08:46 AM (uZNvH)

103 Meh. Society would be improved more by mandatory sex changes than free college. No more violence, rape or war, just people trying on fabulous dresses, jewelry and shoes.

Posted by: Caitlyn Jenner at January 31, 2016 08:47 AM (b2qGx)

104 The Market can fix all of it. No more mandatory education. No more government education. No more government involvement.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 08:48 AM (MQEz6)

105 Even the prices for e-books (which should run around $3, given how little most coursework changes and the minimal cost of storing and transferring a file) are well beyond the offensive limit. Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at January 31, 2016 01:42 PM (zc3Db) It's all about graft.

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 08:48 AM (RcpcZ)

106 chemJeff, here, have some background - I'm in the middle of chewing through this one so I can't tell you if I like it or not, but it touches on this issue.  It is looking at the reasons there was a 106% increase in tuition costs from 1981 - 2010

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gpy7s9v

Accounting for the Rise in College Tuition
Grey Gordon, Aaron Hedlund


abstract:
We develop a quantitative model of higher education to test explanations for the steep rise in college tuition between 1987 and 2010. The framework extends the quality-maximizing college paradigm of Epple, Romano, Sarpca, and Sieg (2013) and embeds it in an incomplete markets, life-cycle environment. We measure how much changes in underlying costs, reforms to the Federal Student Loan Program (FSLP), and changes in the college earnings premium have caused tuition to increase. All these changes combined generate a 106% rise in net tuition between 1987 and 2010, which more than accounts for the 78% increase seen in the data. Changes in the FSLP alone generate a 102% tuition increase, and changes in the college premium generate a 24% increase. Our findings cast doubt on Baumol's cost disease as a driver of higher tuition


The actual meat of this article is section 4.3 Assessing the Theories of Tuition Inflation

Now we turn to our main question of assessing why net tuition has almost doubled since 1987. Notably, our model successfully replicates this rise without using it as a calibration target. We proceed to quantify the role of the following factors in this tuition rise: i) changes in custodial costs and non-tuition sources of revenue, such as endowments and state support (supply shocks), ii) changes in student loan borrowing limits, interest rates, grant aid, and non-tuition costs, such as room and board (demand shocks), and iii) macroeconomic forces, namely, the rise in the college wage premium.


Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 08:48 AM (q2o38)

107 Sorry, just section 4.  Not 4.3 which is very short, and only asks the question

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 08:50 AM (q2o38)

108 Any idea that includes, "should be free" is an immediate "no" to me. Nothing should be free. Nothing should be subsidized. Ever. I don't care how much money Harvard (or anything or anyone else) has or makes. There should be no justification for anyone to lay claim to anyone else's property. Universities also should not be tax exempt. They are heavily involved in teaching and even writing tax laws and policy. The should not be benefiting from writing their own exemptions. Eliminate the DOL, all education subsidies, all grants, loans, and other public ally backed funding and the entire education system will self correct in a year. People value what they pay for because they have a stake in it. People control prices and force competition by choosing what they think is the best value. They hold the people/ institutions accountable.

Posted by: Damiano at January 31, 2016 08:51 AM (XItbt)

109 Actually instead of trying to get the Ivy's to take people for free, we should be breaking their perceived elite status. The Feds should be required to hire from colleges across the country and if they have too many Ivy grads, they have to freeze hiring from there.

Posted by: WOPR at January 31, 2016 08:52 AM (LTDSy)

110 Noticed that there was a disproportionate number of black winners at the SAG awards last night. Isn't it interesting how when a disproportionate number of blacks get nominated or win, then it's because they totally deserved it, but if a disproportionate number of whites get nominated or win, it's because . . . raaaaaaacism! Funny how that works.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at January 31, 2016 08:53 AM (a31sM)

111 "Do you know why large businesses like college degrees?"

Because of _Griggs v. Duke Power_.

Large businesses once used IQ tests, very usefully too, then were told by the black-robed radicals that they had to stop doing that.

So college degrees became a proxy for intelligence testing.

Now, though, that college degrees have been watered down to where they no longer connote anything meaningful in terms of ranking the matriculant's intelligence, interest by employers in hiring degreed applicants is dropping off.

By the way, the armed forces still use IQ testing to size up people's abilities, never referred to as such of course, thinly disguised as the ASVAB.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 31, 2016 08:53 AM (noWW6)

112 Thomas Malthus said in 1795 that subsidies increase prices.  So far as I know, no one has proved that one wrong.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 08:53 AM (q2o38)

113 Here is a real-life example of what I'm talking about

A few years ago, the Missouri state board was pressuring every university to get their 2nd-year retention rates up (basically how many students continue in their studies from the first year to the second year), they didn't dictate to every university how to do this, but they did demand improvement.  So every university had to come up with a plan.  Our university did two big things, one good and one kinda slimy.  The good thing was to put more emphasis on early intervention on students in academic trouble.  All the departments were told to be more active in trying to help first-year students who were struggling with their academics in the middle of the semester, struggling with the adjustment to college life, etc., so as to perhaps do something that would prevent them from dropping out unnecessarily.  Maybe trying to find more tutors, more study sessions, more counselors, things along those lines.  So we did that. 


The slimy thing was based on the board's definition of "retention rate", it only counted full-time students.  The admissions office did a study of our students and it showed that students who enrolled at the last minute tended to have much lower retention rates than students who enrolled at the usual time.  So the university simply established a new policy that students who enrolled at the last minute couldn't sign up to be full-time students.  So even if they did fail their classes and drop out, it wouldn't be held against the university in terms of a lower retention rate.


The really sad news is that once the data were all in, the stuff we did for the early academic intervention basically had no effect, and the way our university was able to demonstrate to the board that our retention rates went up was just to game the rules and change who was counted for purposes of the retention rate calculation.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 08:55 AM (uZNvH)

114 When the word got out that college was now for everybody the K-12 education racket slacked off. A highschool grad of 1955 had the equivalent of a modern B.S. degree, at least. Do you see the pattern? The shift in responsibility and timing? Do you see the underlying current, the government, the state?

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 08:56 AM (MQEz6)

115 47 Here's another irony/oxymoron: "mandatory volunteering." My son just asked me if I thought that volunteering should be mandatory for credit in schools. Guess what my opinion was? Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 12:51 PM (xVgrA) This pisses me off to no end that mandatory volunteering is now required to graduate from high school.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at January 31, 2016 08:58 AM (kpqmD)

116 #108 That's some pretty fancy talk. It doesn't seem to address, however, the huge increase in administrative costs in the 1981 - 2010 time period. The size of college administration had increased about 100% during that same period. Coincidence? I think not.

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 08:59 AM (RcpcZ)

117 Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 01:55 PM (uZNvH) Well, then, the Board has to go.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 08:59 AM (MQEz6)

118 #FreePanera

Posted by: Jen Psocki on behalf of Uncle Bernie at January 31, 2016 09:00 AM (Dwehj)

119 If I had it to do over, instead of working hard for years and making something of myself, I would lounge about and let you suckers support me and complain about my woeful circumstances.

Posted by: Weasel at January 31, 2016 09:00 AM (e3bId)

120 Actually instead of trying to get the Ivy's to take people for free, we should be breaking their perceived elite status. A school that's tougher to get into will always be viewed as more elite and for good reason (if the word "elite" is to have any meaning). Just make graduates directly comparable. That's all you need to do. A lot of schools maintain reputations from when their curricula were much more rigorous than they are today. If you want them to focus more on academics and keep some people from jizzing themselves about a person merely because he graduated from a specific school, just offer a way to directly compare that person to the graduate of another school.

Posted by: AD at January 31, 2016 09:01 AM (QWY55)

121 I call it "compulsory volunteering."

It's really just more free labor. Have the kids do the recycling work while municipal employees get paid overtime to watch (and boost their pensions).

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 01:45 PM (RcpcZ)



I wouldn't allow my kids to participate in that when their high school tried to make a certain number of volunteer hours a condition of graduation. As far as I am concerned, such requirements violate the biblical injunction that the charity we do be done in private and not for earthly gain AND it teaches kids the wrong message about charity (that it is a burdensome thing that you only do because it is required).

Posted by: redbanzai at January 31, 2016 09:01 AM (NPofj)

122 Eman, you're making too much sense.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at January 31, 2016 09:03 AM (u5gzz)

123 114 Thomas Malthus said in 1795 that subsidies increase prices. So far as I know, no one has proved that one wrong. Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 01:53 PM (q2o3 Well I'll be damned, that son of a bitch *was* right about something. Who knew?

Posted by: AD at January 31, 2016 09:04 AM (QWY55)

124 Posted by: redbanzai at January 31, 2016 02:01 PM (NPofj) All you do is have them volunteer in the most right wing things you can find. Then have them get their friends. If they try to limit your options, you nail them with viewpoint discrimination.

Posted by: WOPR at January 31, 2016 09:06 AM (LTDSy)

125 Forced charity isn't. And Redbanzai nailed it; it makes charity an onerous thing.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at January 31, 2016 09:06 AM (L7nbe)

126 @115 No shock that it failed. The reason is that the school approached the problem the same way that government does. It misidentified the problem, did a bunch of costly, time wasting studies, and it's solution was rooted in manipulating data so that it would read the way they wanted. High dropout rates? The start and end to that problem is the students and, since now we've altered the definition of adult to mean 25+ and undergrad degrees are barely the equivalent of what a high school diploma was 25 years ago, the problem is also the parents. You want to lower dropout rates and increase test scores? Eliminating free and subsidized education. I guarantee that an 18 year old adult who is paying for his or her own education will put more time into books than beer pong and worthless classes. The simple answer to everything is personal accountability.

Posted by: Damiano at January 31, 2016 09:06 AM (XItbt)

127 114 Thomas Malthus said in 1795 that subsidies increase prices. So far as I know, no one has proved that one wrong.
Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 01:53 PM (q2o3


Well I'll be damned, that son of a bitch *was* right about something. Who knew?

Posted by: AD at January 31, 2016 02:04 PM (QWY55)


If we lived in a static world, Malthus would have been right about almost everything. Three cheers for dynamism!

Posted by: redbanzai at January 31, 2016 09:06 AM (NPofj)

128

These comments sections can be a frustrating format in which to even make an observation, such is the pace and the constantly shifting lines of discussion resulting from different issues being raised, different (correct or invalid) arguments bubbling up, etc.

 

But at least in the last part of this thread, only part I've had time to read, seems everybody is various correct lanes of the valid highway of truth (hey, Sunday morning, you're not getting memorable turns of phrase).

 

kindltot, I really should look at that analysis you're citing.  Above all, simple market analysis is as always the most powerful tool, and usually explains most if not all of any issue involving pricing.

 

eman's point about K-12 seeing a massive reduction in quality is also key, and would also explain part of the higher education mess. 

 

Underlying all this, in what is still a mostly self-accountable "free" society, is the lack of hands on the tiller.  That is, voters/citizens who have, literally enabled and countenanced this slide/transformation.  It may all be as simple as something we have all seen in our own jurisdictions:  if it's "for education" (bond issues, pay raises, on and on), it's got a 90% automatic pass rate with the voters.  Reflex action.  Which has become, due to the realities under examination here, a particularly disastrous aspect of lazy, uninformed citizenship.

 

Posted by: rhomboid at January 31, 2016 09:07 AM (QDnY+)

129 sounds like a common core math problem. Posted by: Infidel at January 31, 2016 01:35 PM (MtMEd) But...but, we don't have common core in Texas! {sarc}. Lipstick...pig....

Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 09:08 AM (xVgrA)

130 Mandatory volunteering is just another way to say community service. That's a sentence a judge gives you when you are convicted of a crime. What crime has a high school student committed just by being a student?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 31, 2016 09:09 AM (FkBIv)

131 Another thought re IQ test versus ASVAB test:

A guy who had suffered through working as an Army recruiter as he struggled towards making his twenty (and pension) said that he got enormous heat from his superiors over certain things.

He had been assigned to a predominantly black catchment area. Big Army is always eager to grab bright young blacks and put them on the military's equivalent of the management track, to wit, pointed towards OCS. The recruits he was bringing in weren't so keen on that. In fact, not at all.

What was their absolutely number one chart-topper preference in terms of what they wanted from Army life and Army training? It wasn't to be lined up to be a future Chairman of the JCS. No, what they wanted was to become _cooks_.

His young black recruits viewed the Army not as a long term career choice but as a short-term vocational school with work-study, where they could spend a couple of years under Uncle Sam's wing, to pick up a trade that will never be obsoleted -- one which is in the Army typically not practiced directly on the combat front line -- and to get back out into civilian clothes as soon as they were able.

Consternation among the white Army officers overseeing all this, with concomitant fear for their own career prospects if they didn't generate the officially decreed proportion of eventual black officer accessions. 

As you can imagine, hilarious hijinx ensued. Including white recruiters completely out of their depth in black culture trying desperately to be "street" in their outreach, and failing horrifically at it.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 31, 2016 09:11 AM (noWW6)

132 The K-12ers are turning their lives around.

Posted by: Jen Psocki on behalf of Uncle Bernie at January 31, 2016 09:11 AM (Dwehj)

133 6 I think schools like Harvard and Yale should have 50% of their attendance by inner city poor all paid for by the school. Posted by: Vic-we have no party Why just 'inner city poor"? Why not suburban or rural poor as well?

Posted by: Renfrew at January 31, 2016 09:13 AM (QdAXQ)

134 132 Mandatory volunteering is just another way to say community service. That's a sentence a judge gives you when you are convicted of a crime. What crime has a high school student committed just by being a student? Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 31, 2016 02:09 PM (FkBIv) Well if they're male. Rape.

Posted by: buzzion at January 31, 2016 09:13 AM (zt+N6)

135 Well if they're male. Rape.

Yes.

Posted by: unaccompanied minor refugee in Sweden at January 31, 2016 09:14 AM (Dwehj)

136
Well I'll be damned, that son of a bitch *was* right about something. Who knew?
Posted by: AD at January 31, 2016 02:04 PM (QWY55)


I encourage everyone to read On Population, at least the first part.

The final parts where he is arguing against Candorcet and William Godwin on morality is hard, since Candorcet was executed withing 5 years of publication and no-one remembers Goodwin except as a precursor to Anarchism.


"To prevent the recurrence of misery, is, alas! beyond the power of man. In the vain endeavour to attain what in the nature of things is impossible, we now sacrifice not only possible but certain benefits. We tell the common people that if they will submit to a code of tyrannical regulations, they shall never be in want. They do submit to these regulations. They perform their part of the contract, but we do not, nay cannot, perform ours, and thus the poor sacrifice the valuable blessing of liberty and receive nothing that can be called an equivalent in return."

Poetry to my deafened ears.  Equal to Cervantes's discussion of the same.

And other sections are weapons grade snark.  You just have to dig them out.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 09:14 AM (q2o38)

137 The recipe for Utopia by our next generation of university grads: - Make all my education free - Eliminate grades and any measurement standards - Guarantee me a 6 figure job the day after I graduate - Guarantee my salary, healthcare and retirement for life - Guarantee me everything I want and give me the right to prosecute anyone who does not give me what I want - If any of these things do not come to pass or work out, it is not my fault. It is the responsibility of "The System".

Posted by: Damiano at January 31, 2016 09:16 AM (XItbt)

138 All you do is have them volunteer in the most right wing things you can find. Then have them get their friends. If they try to limit your options, you nail them with viewpoint discrimination.

Posted by: WOPR at January 31, 2016 02:06 PM (LTDSy)


That wouldn't have fixed the issue I had though. Instead, the day after I got the notice, I took my Bible in and showed the principal the verses that prohibit what he proposed to make mandatory, told him my children would not be participating and asked him if I needed to take this issue any further than him. He said no and that was the end of it.



It probably helps that I had not been shy in the past in removing my children from other "requirements" that I do not think the schools had the power to impose. For instance, my children were not indoctrinated about Islam as I removed them from those lessons and strongly requested that they be given alternate assignments (after having to listen to a... polite... rendition of actual Islamic history from 622 AND having to listen to me list all the reasons it was not their responsibility to educate my children about religion, I think the acquiesced just to get me to shut up:-))

Posted by: redbanzai at January 31, 2016 09:18 AM (NPofj)

139 I don't believe it. After charging the battery for an hour the lawn mower cranked right up and ran like a top. First time that has ever happened after sitting up all winter.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 09:21 AM (t2KH5)

140 Posted by: Damiano at January 31, 2016 02:06 PM (XItbt)

I agree that a big problem is the quality of the students, and that is chiefly the fault of public highschools.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2016 09:21 AM (uZNvH)

141 I would like Mr. Dildo to PM me.

Posted by: Sandra Flook at January 31, 2016 09:23 AM (Dwehj)

142 Trump WILL MAKE COLLEGE GREAT AGAIN!

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 09:23 AM (RcpcZ)

143 >>>Noticed that there was a disproportionate number of black winners at the SAG awards last night.<<< Aren't these guilds just another variation of a union? Screw them, we need to bring in more non-union immigrants to act for half scale wages.

Posted by: Fritz at January 31, 2016 09:24 AM (BngQR)

144 120 #FreePanera

Posted by: Jen Psocki on behalf of Uncle Bernie at January 31, 2016 02:00 PM (Dwehj)



And Cirque du Soleil!!!!

Posted by: Romans at January 31, 2016 09:24 AM (EzgxV)

145 The problem is solved, haters: Obama Unveils $4.2 Billion Plan to Teach Kids Computer Science From yesterday's Christian Science Monitor: http://tinyurl.com/jqucjwb

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at January 31, 2016 09:26 AM (u5gzz)

146
If we lived in a static world, Malthus would have been right about almost everything. Three cheers for dynamism!
Posted by: redbanzai at January 31, 2016 02:06 PM (NPofj)


A lot of what is said about Malthus is not exactly what he said: in On Population, his main thrust is that moral behavior is a major negative feedback controlling that actions of individuals, and to take away that negative feedback, either by subsidizing bad behavior or removing morality from the picture, would result in starvation and widespread death.

To a leftist like Ehrlich, of course, there is no base morality, so there is no fundamental control on otherwise "uncontrollable" population, so from that point of view Malthus is a doomsaying prediction, that justifies societal controls on a population that will destroy everyone and everything.

There is a sermon in that somewhere, something along the lines of the wicked flee when none pursue.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 09:27 AM (q2o38)

147 I wonder why all these freedom from religion and atheist don't seem to be very vocal about islamic lessons in schools? Hmmmmm........Its like they like their heads attached to their bodies or something...

Posted by: lindafell de spair at January 31, 2016 09:28 AM (xVgrA)

148
Yes, that idea is PURE AWESOME.

Yes, yes, YES.




Posted by: Trump Super Fan at January 31, 2016 09:29 AM (l2dSQ)

149 Obama Unveils $4.2 Billion Plan to Teach Kids Computer Science More gubmint $$$ straight into the bank accounts of big education.

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 09:29 AM (RcpcZ)

150 Obama Unveils $4.2 Billion Plan to Teach Kids Computer Science

We'll need a way bigger microprocessor for the iPhone.

Posted by: Apple at January 31, 2016 09:30 AM (Dwehj)

151 Just some Youtube silliness ...

Irish Whiskey VS American Whiskey

LINK:  https://youtu.be/2MZdId0rB-M

Posted by: mrp at January 31, 2016 09:31 AM (JBggj)

152 I have successfully reprogrammed Angry Birds!

Posted by: Computer Scientist Yoot at January 31, 2016 09:32 AM (Dwehj)

153

Per the comments about the quality of the HS grads (i.e., how the "problem" starts in the K-12 years, not at the university stage), while I don't have the hard/updated numbers, I believe that CA, for example, sees as much as 50% of the incoming freshmen to the CSU system (the San Jose States, the other major public 4-yr system besides the UC) requiring remedial English and math work.

 

I also believe it's the case that doing meaningful year/year comparisons on this number back into history runs into a wall not that many years ago.  Reason?  The problem was no de minimis before the current era, there is no systematic data on it. 

 

Kind of a "mike drop" moment, and one that confirm's eman's observation about things being rotten from the get-go.

 

Posted by: rhomboid at January 31, 2016 09:32 AM (QDnY+)

154 Obama Unveils $4.2 Billion Plan to Teach Kids Computer Science More gubmint $$$ straight into the bank accounts of big education. Posted by: Ed Anger Every child deserves a free taxpayer provided Macintosh computer.

Posted by: Apple shareholder at January 31, 2016 09:32 AM (FkBIv)

155 "Obama Unveils $4.2 Billion Plan to Teach Kids Computer Science"

Back in the 2009 Obama porkulus bill, there was a line item allocating millions of bucks to teach Enterprise Java programming.

Well, isn't that good? Should we not be assisting those unemployed through no fault of their own to touch up their technology skills to locate new employment?

The teaching turned out to be teaching people in... Sri Lanka.

You would think Mitt Romney might have had a few words about this crap when running against Obama in 2012. Instead he was going on about how he was going to slash funding for that universally despised icon of government overspending, Big Bird.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 31, 2016 09:34 AM (noWW6)

156 The military academies are "free".

But a price is definitely paid.


I like this model.

Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 09:34 AM (SVE9e)

157 No texter left behind.

Posted by: Jen Psocki on behalf of Uncle Bernie at January 31, 2016 09:35 AM (Dwehj)

158

And if we really want to stick it to them, with a Straight face and totally serious commitment we should say:
"Hey, just set aside 45% of your new admissions slots for all those students who manage to place in the Top 1% of grades in a community college. - And when there's way too many applicants available [as there certainly will be] pull from a lottery. "

What can they say?
It's still merit based. But it lets in a YUGE swath of the underclass they fucking DESPISE, the fuckers.




Posted by: Trump Super Fan at January 31, 2016 09:38 AM (l2dSQ)

159 141 I don't believe it. After charging the battery for an hour the lawn mower cranked right up and ran like a top. First time that has ever happened after sitting up all winter. Posted by: Vic ------------------ You must've lucked into some ethanol-free gas last summer. Good for you.

Posted by: Chi at January 31, 2016 09:38 AM (ENe42)

160 Yellow Corvettes make an exciting end to the Rolex 24!

Posted by: Spun and Murky at January 31, 2016 09:39 AM (06b4v)

161 Hey, how do I turn this thing on?

Posted by: Computer Scientist Yoot at January 31, 2016 09:40 AM (Dwehj)

162 161  You must've lucked into some ethanol-free gas last summer. Good for you.

Posted by: Chi at January 31, 2016 02:38 PM (ENe42)


No I have never found any around here.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 09:41 AM (t2KH5)

163 End the current racist meritocracy which boils down to "Who is the blackest".

Then we can talk cost.

A lot of families that would pay full price for a school are  not admitted , not due to GPAs or SATs but by race.

This is evil.

Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 09:42 AM (SVE9e)

164 No I have never found any around here.

Good answer.

Posted by: Your EPA Minders at January 31, 2016 09:43 AM (Dwehj)

165 So Obama wants to throw another $4.2B into a government outreach program for teacher's unions.  What's wrong with the billions we are already spending on schools and teaching?


If I had my way I would kill every public school in the country and we would go back to pre-1900s with all private schools.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 09:43 AM (t2KH5)

166 What crime has a high school student committed just by being a student?

Justin Bieber!

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at January 31, 2016 09:43 AM (DL2i+)

167 Colleges are just a scam to make young dumbasses feel like they are "educated" and "enlighted" until real life called "work" comes along and knocks them on their asses and they have debt out the wazzou which the likes of Hillary are gonna make me and you pay now. What did P.T. Barnum say? There is a Haaavaaard grad (sucker) born every minute.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 31, 2016 09:44 AM (ej1L0)

168 Q: How did race get defined as  "merit" anyway?

A: The Proggies grievance totem pole.


Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 09:44 AM (SVE9e)

169 Most people don't know that Stanford University is essentially already free! They purposely don't really advertise this fact. The Stanford tuition is almost as ridiculously high as Harvard's, HOWEVER, Stanford gives complete 100% tuition-negating scholarships to almost every single student whose parents aren't multi-millionaires. I think the cutoff is, that if your parent had net income of anything less than $250,000 the previous year, you are given a free ride at Stanford. And if their income is something between (don't quote me on this -- approximates) $250,000 and $400,000, you get a partial "financial aid" scholarship. Only those children of zillionaires making over $500,000-ish net yearly have to actually pay the tuition, on the assumption that "they can afford it." So, actually, there is no financial impediment to getting into Stanford, despite what everyone thinks. The Stanford "endowment" is $22 billion -- almost as much as Harvard's. Academically, however, there is a YUUUGE impediment, as you have to be in the top 1.5% nationwide at a minimum on most academic measurements to even be considered. That is, unless you are good at throwing or catching footballs, or tackling people who are good at throwing or catching footballs. In which case you could have a 1.3 GPA and they'd let you in.

Posted by: zombie at January 31, 2016 09:44 AM (jBuUi)

170 Every spring, I have to take the carb off my Deere and clean it really well, or she won't start. Last year, even that didn't work. Probably needs a total rebuild. Jinx the Cat can tell you a horror story about that crappy ethanol stuff. (I'm sure you know already)

Posted by: Chi at January 31, 2016 09:45 AM (ENe42)

171 Shit for brains can unveil all he wants anyway.  But he will have to take the money out of some other program first.  I recommend taking it out of corn subsidies.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 09:45 AM (t2KH5)

172 After charging the battery for an hour the lawn mower cranked right up and ran like a top. Posted by: Vic Is that the same battery with the shorted cell?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 31, 2016 09:45 AM (FkBIv)

173 That is, unless you are good at throwing or catching footballs, or tackling people who are good at throwing or catching footballs. In which case you could have a 1.3 GPA and they'd let you in.

At least they have a skill. Unlike the race/sex/oppressed grievance mob.


Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 09:47 AM (SVE9e)

174 64---Most of the elite schools actually are pretty cheap nowadays if you're genuinely poor or middle class, due to scholarships. It's an upper middle class family that's going to get hit with a big tuition bill. Posted by: AD at January 31, 2016 01:05 PM (QWY55) ----------------- THIS. But also the middle-middle people who were so stupid as to save for college for their kids. I have seen this. The Jones and Smith families earn the same amount of money. The Joneses put in a swimming pool, go to Disney World, drive nice new cars, and shop at the better stores. The Smiths sock money away instead. Guess who will pay more at many colleges? The Smiths, you see, because they have a stash and that counts against you when "need" is determined.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2016 09:48 AM (T/5A0)

175 174  Is that the same battery with the shorted cell?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 31, 2016 02:45 PM (FkBIv)


Yep, still cranked up on the first hit.  But I have a feeling that battery probably will not make it through the summer.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 09:48 AM (t2KH5)

176 O/T but Drudge is trolling Susan Sarandon's SAG appearance pretty hard

Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 09:50 AM (WF5ei)

177 oppressed grievance

Hey, that's what I'm majoring in.

Posted by: Stanford Special Snowflake at January 31, 2016 09:50 AM (Dwehj)

178
Guess who will pay more at many colleges?
The Smiths, you see, because they have a stash and that counts against you when "need" is determined.


If you meet the race/sex quota requirements and can even get in.

UGA is racist this way.

Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 09:50 AM (SVE9e)

179 If we're ever going to get our society straightened out, whether or not we can save our country in its present form, we're going to have to break the stranglehold of the college system and its cultural Marxism on the American mindset.  By allowing these people to remain as the gatekeepers of professional success, we're condemning our best and brightest to years of indoctrination, and further poisoning the well as may of these people will go on to become educators themselves.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 09:50 AM (HalrA)

180 And in other school news, Marine vet suing Maryland School system for Muslim indoctrination of his high school student: http://preview.tinyurl.com/jlqse45 This is really bad stuff. Two different textbooks, one which students are told to leave at school?!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 31, 2016 09:51 AM (w4NZ8)

181 179 oppressed grievance

Hey, that's what I'm majoring in.

Posted by: Stanford Special Snowflake at January 31, 2016 02:50 PM (Dwehj)



Universities oppress the poor and average, who cannot afford to go, nor qualify to get in.

Posted by: A Monkeywrench at January 31, 2016 09:52 AM (HalrA)

182 Re: mandatory volunteering This is straight up Marxist/Leninist strategy. Stalin quoting Lenin: "First we must convince and then we must coerce. We must at all cost first convince and then coerce." And later restated by Hillary Rodham: (paraphrasing) We hope you will go along with this proposal voluntarily but if not we are prepared to force you.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 31, 2016 09:52 AM (NeFrd)

183 2 And in other school news, Marine vet suing Maryland School system for Muslim indoctrination of his high school student:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jlqse45

This is really bad stuff. Two different textbooks, one which students are told to leave at school?!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 31, 2016 02:51 PM (w4NZ



This is nakedly illegal, we're talking 1st Amendment violations here.  We've been told that anything to do with religion in schools represents an establishment of religion by government...  time to make them live up to their own rulings.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 09:54 AM (HalrA)

184 184 Re: mandatory volunteering This is straight up Marxist/Leninist strategy. Stalin quoting Lenin: "First we must convince and then we must coerce. We must at all cost first convince and then coerce." And later restated by Hillary Rodham: (paraphrasing) We hope you will go along with this proposal voluntarily but if not we are prepared to force you. Posted by: Seamus Muldoon I just got a flyer in the mail from the State of California. It said: Separating your trash into the recycling and composting bins is a GREAT IDEA! And now -- IT'S THE LAW! Violators will be fined up to $5,000 per incident!" They crossed the line from "encouragement" to "compulsion a the point of a gun" so effortlessly.

Posted by: zombie at January 31, 2016 09:55 AM (jBuUi)

185 Never piss off a jarhead. Especially by trying to indoctrinate his daughter AND banning him from school property. It never ends well.

Posted by: SMFH at January 31, 2016 09:55 AM (jASI5)

186 They crossed the line from "encouragement" to "compulsion a the point of a gun" so effortlessly.

Posted by: zombie at January 31, 2016 02:55 PM (jBuUi)



This is what Bastiat was talking about when he was talking about the law becoming an instrument of injustice and tool of plunder.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 09:57 AM (HalrA)

187 7 Obviously my white male privelege has allowed me to have all of the comments to myself. We need a system to redistribute comments more fairly. Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 31, 2016 12:19 PM (kTF2Z) Shut up, Whitey.

Posted by: BLM at January 31, 2016 09:57 AM (sdi6R)

188 189 7 Obviously my white male privelege has allowed me to have all of the comments to myself. We need a system to redistribute comments more fairly.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 31, 2016 12:19 PM (kTF2Z)


Shut up, Whitey.

Posted by: BLM at January 31, 2016 02:57 PM (sdi6R)



Lawn.  Get off it.

Posted by: Big Chief at January 31, 2016 09:58 AM (HalrA)

189 Its not just illegal, it is also borderline abusive to the kids.

"Tell Gramma you fell off the swing" is not how you want to allow anyone to run a school, and it is no way you want the kids to be conditioned.

This is what some people are afraid of with the electronic texts.  What if certain sections can only be unlocked at school by teachers, but can't be read by the parents?

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 09:58 AM (q2o38)

190 We've added Head Chopping 101 to next year's curriculum.

Posted by: Maryland Board of Education at January 31, 2016 09:58 AM (Dwehj)

191 Zombie, how are you doing?

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 09:59 AM (q2o38)

192 This is what some people are afraid of with the electronic texts. What if certain sections can only be unlocked at school by teachers, but can't be read by the parents?

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 02:58 PM (q2o3



If it ever gets to that point, tar, feathers, and your local school board will be on a collision course.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 10:01 AM (HalrA)

193 As to college finance and student debts , were the college to have skin in the default/forgiveness gambit there might be some interesting consequences . How long would the engineering dept. stand by , its graduates employed and paying their loans , while the various sham majors aka grievance studies generate the lion 's share of the defaults ?? Pass the popcorn .

Posted by: jay hoenemeyer at January 31, 2016 10:03 AM (uvj0z)

194 178 O/T but Drudge is trolling Susan Sarandon's SAG appearance pretty hard Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 02:50 PM (WF5ei) ___________________ Hey, why shouldn't 70-year old grannies put their tits on display? Especially while paying tribute to dead colleagues. Or maybe she has just watched too many Seinfeld episodes, and thought the bra was a top.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at January 31, 2016 10:04 AM (a31sM)

195 If it ever gets to that point, tar, feathers, and your local school board will be on a collision course. Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 03:01 PM (HalrA) I think that would be the end of public school for almost every involved parent (that is, the one's they really want.) Basically what happened in some places in NYC will happen nationwide, "school" will just be "government funded day care"

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at January 31, 2016 10:04 AM (tM4uk)

196 A large part of the problem is that college administrators have become warehouses for our ruling class. When I went to the University of Casual Sun-Bathing, there were about 3 teaching faculty per administrator -- currently, the ratio is less than one-to-one.



And what sort of people are in these administrative positions? How about Elena Kagan, who was the 11th Dean of Harvard Law School, now on SCOTUS? How about Janet Napolitano, current President of the University of California -- former head of DHS?



And what sort of salaries do these partisan hacks pull down for these sinecures? Typically in the mid-six-figures range, with perks like free housing in 12,000 square-foot mansions that cost additional six-figures to maintain....

Posted by: cthulhu at January 31, 2016 10:04 AM (EzgxV)

197 Posted by: jay hoenemeyer at January 31, 2016 03:03 PM (uvj0z)



I definitely think Student Loan debt should not be protected from bankruptcy.  It would put the universities on the hook for pumping out too many bullshit degrees that don't contribute to earning a living in the real world, and basically make them accountable for the quality of their product.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 10:05 AM (HalrA)

198 More:

I recently learned that this kind of stuff starts in high school.
I was told that more than 30% of the kids in our local public school are from a different, failing school district. When I asked how this was possible, a person who works for the school explained it to me.

Black parents who want their kids to go to a specific school ( instead of the failing one down the street) simply sign over guardianship of their child to another black family, someone who lives locally to the target. Usually this is accomplished through mythical 'great-step-auntie' type relationships. The net effect is that fund raising and parent participation in our local schools activities is reduced proportionally. And the school begins to fail.

Nothing is ever questioned because "raycist" .

I agree with Vic. Public schools need to be scrapped.




Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 10:05 AM (SVE9e)

199 Thank God the couple is being represented pro bono by the St Law Law Center for Religious freedom:. http://preview.tinyurl.com/hd3dycq

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 31, 2016 10:06 AM (w4NZ8)

200 Posted by: Vic-we have no party at January 31, 2016 02:41 PM (t2KH5)

This web site works pretty well. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing for finding ethanol-free fuel.

http://www.buyrealgas.com/

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 10:06 AM (Zu3d9)

201 Sorry; Meant St Thomas More Law Center.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 31, 2016 10:08 AM (w4NZ8)

202 I agree with Vic. Public schools need to be scrapped.




Posted by: Mortimer at January 31, 2016 03:05 PM (SVE9e)



Making all schools private would be a step in the right direction, but they'd probably have to have a voucher system.  A lot of today's "poor" would skip their kids education in favor of more of their drug of choice otherwise, and all of society would suffer as a result.



Still, making them all compete with each other for students (thus funding) would lead to a better product.  Monopoly or near-monopoly such as the state currently has only creates stagnation.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 10:09 AM (HalrA)

203 This web site works pretty well. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing for finding ethanol-free fuel. http://www.buyrealgas.com/ Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 03:06 PM (Zu3d9) ***** Another one is www.pure-gas.org

Posted by: Tim in GA [/i] [/s] [/b] at January 31, 2016 10:11 AM (X+kq/)

204 I like the idea of scrapping the public schools for private idea, but I think in practice it will lead to even greater self-segregation and cultural balkinization.

Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 10:12 AM (WF5ei)

205 Still, making them all compete with each other for students (thus funding) would lead to a better product.

I like that idea.

Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 10:13 AM (SVE9e)

206 even greater self-segregation and cultural balkinization.

How would that even be possible?

Serious question.

Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 10:14 AM (SVE9e)

207 202  http://www.buyrealgas.com/

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 31, 2016 03:06 PM (Zu3d9)


I  have used those web sites before.  They listed two stations here that are supposed to have alcohol free gas.  I went both and neither had it.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 10:15 AM (t2KH5)

208 206 I like the idea of scrapping the public schools for private idea, but I think in practice it will lead to even greater self-segregation and cultural balkinization. Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 03:12 PM (WF5ei) You say that like it's a bad thing...

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at January 31, 2016 10:16 AM (u5gzz)

209 204  A lot of today's "poor" would skip their kids education in favor of more of their drug of choice otherwise, and all of society would suffer as a result.

Still, making them all compete with each other for students (thus funding) would lead to a better product. Monopoly or near-monopoly such as the state currently has only creates stagnation.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 03:09 PM (HalrA)


Society did not suffer as much in the 1800s from pay for school as they do now for "free" schools.

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 10:16 AM (t2KH5)

210 How would that even be possible?

Serious question.

Posted by: Mortimer at January 31, 2016 03:14 PM (SVE9e)



We're at a point now where pretty much every man is alienated by and from every other by some imagined form of privilege or oppression that only exists in their minds, as long as those who would control them are able to cultivate those feelings.



It really don't get much worse from here, short of open warfare of the every man for himself sort.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 10:16 AM (HalrA)

211 The town I'm trying to escape from is already 70%+ hispanic, the high school buses kids in from two towns away so there can be at least an appearance of diversity. Guess I'd be the one having my kid bused two towns over, hmmmmm, have to think on this some more

Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 10:17 AM (WF5ei)

212 There is a new series on Reelz TV entitled Deadly Shootouts. They compare Hollywood shootouts with the McCoy. So far, they've done Bonnie and Clyde's Joplin shootout and the Ma Barker gang's last stand. Pretty interesting. Bonus: two time shooting champ and weapons expert (not to mention smoking hot babe) Tori Nonaka fills us in on the weapons.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at January 31, 2016 10:18 AM (Nwg0u)

213 Society did not suffer as much in the 1800s from pay for school as they do now for "free" schools.

Posted by: Vic-we have no party at January 31, 2016 03:16 PM (t2KH5)



This is true, but the 1800s didn't have an epidemic of people cranking out large amounts of children who they do not lift a finger to support, so they can get more public assistance that they can then use for their own purposes while neglecting said children.  If there was nothing to make them put those children in school, they would end up being completely feral.  If you think it's bad now, just wait...

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 10:18 AM (HalrA)

214 Vic, most gas distribution to the stations are done by a couple of companies in each region.  Try and find out who does it in your region, and call to ask if they deliver non-alcohol fuel and where.

Otherwise ask at the local marine engine dealership or ATV outlet, or the John Deere repair shop.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 10:19 AM (q2o38)

215 I missed where self-segregation and cultural balkanization were a negative result. Pretty sure that's the whole idea. Afterward all you need are big moats full of piranhas for physical balkanization.

Posted by: a phoenician sailor at January 31, 2016 10:19 AM (W51NF)

216 This is what Bastiat was talking about when he was talking about the law becoming an instrument of injustice and tool of plunder.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 02:57 PM (HalrA)


=================


"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance."

Posted by: mrp at January 31, 2016 10:22 AM (JBggj)

217 Cato, there were a lot of social reformers in the 1800's that would have disagreed with you about that.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 31, 2016 10:22 AM (q2o38)

218 Posted by: a phoenician sailor at January 31, 2016 03:19 PM (W51NF) When you buy a house, do you try to buy in a good neighborhood? Is that the kind of "physical balkanization" you're talking about?

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at January 31, 2016 10:23 AM (u5gzz)

219 You're also supposed to use mid-grade or premium in small engines anymore.

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 10:23 AM (RcpcZ)

220 "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of
Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance."

Posted by: mrp at January 31, 2016 03:22 PM (JBggj)



It's amazing how many of those charges you can pin on various states (especially California) or Obama.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at January 31, 2016 10:23 AM (HalrA)

221 self-segregation and cultural balkanization

Maybe I didn't understand those terms.

Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 10:26 AM (SVE9e)

222 210 206 I like the idea of scrapping the public schools for private idea, but I think in practice it will lead to even greater self-segregation and cultural balkinization. Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 03:12 PM (WF5ei) You say that like it's a bad thing... Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at January 31, 2016 03:16 PM (u5gzz) Yeah, I'm not seeing the problem there.

Posted by: BLM at January 31, 2016 10:26 AM (sdi6R)

223 Whoops.

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2016 10:27 AM (sdi6R)

224 Nothing new here. Sometime during the 1980's Forbes published a charticle entitled "A Man from Mars' View of the Purpose Of Colleges and Universities" based on close ethnographic observation of the peculiarities of the various tribes. Here's what I remember of it.

1) Grow the endowment. First and foremost.
2) Provide a lifestyle for bright but otherwise unemployable people.
3) Function as minor league feeders to the sports too benighted to have their own minor leagues, e.g., basketball and football.
4) Award higher salaries to sports coaches than to Nobel Laureates, or in state schools, than to any other state employee, including the governor.
5) In the STEM fields, do a little professional competency training.
6) Again in the STEM fields, foster a feeder system into graduate studies to provide slave labor for the professors' grant programs, which programs are a useful addition to the bottom line/endowment
7) Cream off IP developed under grants and license that IP to add to the bottom line/endowment
In the non-STEM fields, outside some classical liberal arts areas (sometimes), encourage students to feel good about themselves while earning degrees in watching TV/movies or becoming indoctrinated in the ever expanding array of grievance studies

Not an exact remembrance, but as close as I can get through the ensuing decades. They were prescient.

Posted by: chuckR at January 31, 2016 10:28 AM (cgJKE)

225 Paying tuition for undergrads out of the profits derived from the investment of endowments is out of the question. The taxpayers need to know they are investing in America's future when Hillarybernie makes college tuition FREE for all aspiring students. It's the American way.

Posted by: Hank at January 31, 2016 10:28 AM (BtG7l)

226 We're at a point now where pretty much every man is alienated by and from every other by some imagined form of privilege or oppression that only exists in their minds, as long as those who would control them are able to cultivate those feelings.

It really don't get much worse from here, short of open warfare of the every man for himself sort.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party



>>>>>>>>>>


Yes , that was exactly my meaning.

Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 10:28 AM (SVE9e)

227 >>>210 206 I like the idea of scrapping the public schools for private idea, but I think in practice it will lead to even greater self-segregation and cultural balkinization. Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 03:12 PM (WF5ei) You say that like it's a bad thing... Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at January 31, 2016 03:16 PM (u5gzz) Yeah, I'm not seeing the problem there.<<< Think of ultra rich Saudis pouring billions into their own institutions of hate.

Posted by: Fritz at January 31, 2016 10:31 AM (BngQR)

228 So you guys are in favor of no-go zones, whether muslim, or other? Cuz that's where it'll end up. I am NOT multi-culti, but the best way to get people to assimilate is to get their kids to play together before their parents attitudes f'em up.

Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 10:32 AM (WF5ei)

229 178 O/T but Drudge is trolling Susan Sarandon's SAG appearance pretty hard Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 02:50 PM (WF5ei) Oh well, we'll always have the movie JOE http://preview.tinyurl.com/jfeyjpo (NSFW!) Plus we get to see Peter Boyle waste a bunch of dirty hippies in that flick, which is a win.

Posted by: Amy Shoomer at January 31, 2016 10:33 AM (HMt16)

230 Think of ultra rich Saudis pouring billions into their own institutions of hate. As opposed to the US government pouring billions into their own institutions of hate (the present public school system).

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 31, 2016 10:34 AM (FkBIv)

231 221 You're also supposed to use mid-grade or premium in small engines anymore. Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 03:23 PM


Husband has some method he uses to remove the alcohol from gasoline.  He then uses that gas in the lawn mower, snow blower, etc.  However, it's obviously not practical for filling up the cars. 

Posted by: IrishEi at January 31, 2016 10:35 AM (E6RIJ)

232 Getting re-directs to some "Apple Prize" fraud when I access this site on i-phone using Safari. Have to turn off Java script to prevent it.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at January 31, 2016 10:35 AM (s+Veb)

233 Plus we get to see Peter Boyle waste a bunch of dirty hippies in that flick, which is a win.
==============

The Monster!

Posted by: mrp at January 31, 2016 10:36 AM (JBggj)

234 Of course the only way that can work is to get the multi-culti PC cultural marxism call it whatever out of the schools, so yeah I can see the allure of saying F' it me and mine are going over thre, see ya. Like I said I'm trying to get out of that situation, got one kid out but I'm afraid I didn't get the other out in time.

Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 10:37 AM (WF5ei)

235 Getting re-directs to some "Apple Prize" fraud when I access this site on i-phone using Safari. Have to turn off Java script to prevent it. Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at January 31, 2016 03:35 PM (s+Veb) ***** I've found it's best to keep the virus cauldron Javascript turned off all the time and only white list sites I like that need it to runction.

Posted by: Tim in GA [/i] [/s] [/b] at January 31, 2016 10:37 AM (X+kq/)

236 >>>As opposed to the US government pouring billions into their own institutions of hate (the present public school system). <<< Yes, but the US gov't promises us gun-free zones, and the Saudis? Infidel-free zones.

Posted by: Fritz at January 31, 2016 10:38 AM (BngQR)

237 >>Getting re-directs to some "Apple Prize" fraud when I access this site on i-phone using Safari. Have to turn off Java script to prevent it. It did that to me the other day for the first time. Thanks for the fix.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2016 10:39 AM (/tuJf)

238 I've long said institutions that have multi-million dollar endowments (or more) can guarantee their own student loans. Why should the tax payers be on the hook for their customers/product? Another thing to do is to put conditions on the student loan. Say every recipient has to pass a CPR test and a basic Gun safety course for every year of the loan. Or be a member of a CMP recognized club. As Congress has a vested interest in making sure that all citizens can defend themselves and help others in time of emergency. Any institution receiving federally backed student loans must have the majority of instructors Full Professors. Any institution receiving any federal money must have an ROTC program. Any institution receiving federal money may not have any form of speech code. All tenured faculty must pass a firearm proficiency test yearly. The libs put all their conditions in, why not us?

Posted by: Iblis at January 31, 2016 10:43 AM (9221z)

239 Old Susie was pretty saggy at the SAG awards. How nice of her to share it with us.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 31, 2016 10:47 AM (iQIUe)

240 Why should the tax payers be on the hook for their customers/product?

Yes.
Want to run your admissions program on racist and sexist quotas?
Want to establish a Grievance Mongering Graduate Studies program?
Want to hire radical imams and race-shouters to speak in campus classrooms?

Go for it, but don't make me pay for it.

Posted by: Mortimer[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2016 10:47 AM (SVE9e)

241 I remember a few years ago when Sarandon attended some trannie show and the trannie performer projectile vomited all over her.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 31, 2016 10:50 AM (iQIUe)

242 Maybe, we should hang a sign stating: AoShq closed until further notice.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 31, 2016 10:53 AM (iQIUe)

243 Sarandon Her finest role was Janet in Rocky Horror Picture Show..... I'm sure She is sooo proud...

Posted by: donna at January 31, 2016 10:54 AM (/dSsq)

244 Her finest role was Janet in Rocky Horror Picture Show..... I'm sure She is sooo proud...

Posted by: donna at January 31, 2016 03:54 PM (/dSsq)


i have never seen that movie

Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at January 31, 2016 10:55 AM (0O7c5)

245 >>Her finest role was Janet in Rocky Horror Picture Show..... I'm sure She is sooo proud... Dammit Janet! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbpJb7hjb7M

Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2016 10:57 AM (/tuJf)

246 240 --- Some good ideas there, except for the one about a majority of instructors being "full professors," which is a rank usually achieved late in the career. It's like saying that a majority of army officers have to be generals. Do you mean full-timers? Do you mean tenured or tenure-tracked? I don't see the problem, from the student's and public's point of view, with non-tenured adjuncts and part-timers. Or perhaps you mean no graduate students, i.e., no one without a doctorate, should teach even beginning classes? (There are good arguments both pro and con with that one.) Or maybe you just mean that faculty members should actually have to teach more than one class a semester?!?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2016 10:57 AM (T/5A0)

247 I am NOT multi-culti, but the best way to get people to assimilate is to get their kids to play together before their parents attitudes f'em up. Posted by: random lurker at January 31, 2016 03:32 PM You forgot the sarc tag.

Posted by: olddog in mo [/i] [/s] [/b] [/u] at January 31, 2016 10:58 AM (Dhht7)

248 can someone explain why a certain group of militant lesbian feminists that make their hate for all "menkind" known, cut their hair and dress like the misogynists they hate?

Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at January 31, 2016 10:58 AM (0O7c5)

249 >>Do you mean full-timers? Do you mean tenured or tenure-tracked? I don't see the problem, from the student's and public's point of view, with non-tenured adjuncts and part-timers. Actually, something to be said for adjunct / part timers. Often these are people with real jobs in their area and teach because they like to. Better than the old hippy professor that wants to sit in his office all day and resents every student contact he has to suffer.

Posted by: Aviator at January 31, 2016 11:01 AM (c7vUv)

250 i have never seen that movie Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel I've seen "Joe" but never "Rocky Horror". I don't like musicals. The only musical I have ever seen all the way through is The Wizard of Oz.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 31, 2016 11:01 AM (FkBIv)

251 248 240 --- Some good ideas there, except for the one about a majority of instructors being "full professors," which is a rank usually achieved late in the career. It's like saying that a majority of army officers have to be generals. Do you mean full-timers? Do you mean tenured or tenure-tracked? I don't see the problem, from the student's and public's point of view, with non-tenured adjuncts and part-timers. Or perhaps you mean no graduate students, i.e., no one without a doctorate, should teach even beginning classes? (There are good arguments both pro and con with that one.) Or maybe you just mean that faculty members should actually have to teach more than one class a semester?!? Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2016 03:57 PM (T/5A0) Its a combination of a number of these. College faculty are being replaced not with new full professors, but with graduate students, adjuncts, and post doctorate fellows. These instructors are cheaper, often don't get benefits, can't get tenure, and have very heavy loads compared to a full and/or tenured faculty member. 4 or 5 classes a semester instead of 1 or 2 a year. Its a rip off for the parent paying 50-60 grand a year expecting a professor but getting a Grad Student who barely knows the subject. There's a place for Grad Student instructors, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Its actually quite ironic that the policies these academics advocated for, big government, Obamacare, etc. have led to them being ridiculously exploited by their own institutions. And they don't even realize it!

Posted by: Iblis at January 31, 2016 11:06 AM (9221z)

252 250 can someone explain why a certain group of militant lesbian feminists that make their hate for all "menkind" known, cut their hair and dress like the misogynists they hate? Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at January 31, 2016 03:58 PM (0O7c5) Because they're ugly on the inside and want their outsides to reflect it?

Posted by: Iblis at January 31, 2016 11:07 AM (9221z)

253 >>I don't like musicals. The only musical I have ever seen all the way through is The Wizard of Oz. There used to be a great old theater in Boston called the Exeter (it's now a school so, topical!). They used to play the Rocky Horror every Saturday night at midnight. This went on for years and there was a hardcore group that would attend all the time. They knew every single word in the movie and they would talk and sing along while dressed as the characters and they had props. That was the way to see Rocky Horror. Entertaining as hell and I'm not that into musicals either.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2016 11:08 AM (/tuJf)

254 nood

Posted by: Vic[/i]-we have no party at January 31, 2016 11:09 AM (t2KH5)

255 WTF??? I'm at my sons FF game and it's 86 degrees!!!

Posted by: lindafell at January 31, 2016 11:10 AM (7Y9ri)

256 251 --- Aviator --- Agreed --- and not just because I've been an adjunct myself.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2016 11:13 AM (T/5A0)

257 You're also supposed to use mid-grade or premium in small engines anymore. Posted by: Ed Anger at January 31, 2016 03:23 PM (RcpcZ) It's necessary for small engines but even for normal car engines regular ethanol-infected gas is crap. They should really start reporting the "price of gas" as the price of premium, these days, since it is the true replacement for non-ethanol regular gas.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at January 31, 2016 11:24 AM (zc3Db)

258 Does premium gas not contain ethanol?

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2016 11:37 AM (sdi6R)

259 Does premium gas not contain ethanol? Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2016 04:37 PM (sdi6R) It does but the higher octane lessens the effects of the ethanol.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at January 31, 2016 12:21 PM (zc3Db)

260 "18 Get rid of all government involvement.

Make government schools illegal.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2016 12:30 PM (MQEz6)"




In theory a nice idea but right now about 30 states are run by Republicans who, in my opinion, should be exerting a much greater control over both the K-12 and university systems.



For example, any course that uses Howard Zinn's book should have the teacher or professor fired.  And that is just for starters.


The people elect the legislature.  The legislature should control what is being taught in schools and how it is taught.  Fuck tenure.  Let anybody who is unhappy in the state schools apply for jobs in left wing private schools.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at January 31, 2016 12:23 PM (QHgTq)

261 I believe this thread is dead, but I want to post an instructive little tale on the general topic of non-free college tuition.

When you buy your education, you own it. You know the theory of ownership: you take care of what you own. No one in the history of the world has ever washed a rental car.

Acquaintance of mine teaches at a superb medical school. She's from Germany and she says she has to work twice as hard for her students in American med schools than in German med schools. The American students are always doing independent reading on the latest of this, the leading edge of that, wanting to know all about the implications of what they're studying, constantly forcing her to stay up on her own research and beyond. She says it's because they're paying their way and they want their precious money's worth.

German students? Meh. German med school is free. Those students breeze in, do six months or so, decide this isn't for them, and they're off to their next free tour of professional school. They don't own their education, so why take it seriously?

I foresee RINOs making free college tuition the next goal in compassionate conservatism. They already want to give it to illegals. We need to fight it tooth and nail.

Posted by: iforgot at January 31, 2016 12:40 PM (YOxw1)

262 Or, at least use the endowments to pay for defaulted loans from that institution.

Posted by: TexasDan at January 31, 2016 07:10 PM (TqXWc)

263 Interesting article about Harvard. When my son was being recruited to play basketball at Div. III University of Chicago we almost choked when we heard about the $64,000 a year tuition, room, and board at a school that has no scholarships, (athletic nor academic.) However, we were then told that, starting this past fall (2015,) the school also doesn't use student loans as part of their financial aid packages. Whatever a student qualifies for in financial aid via the FAFSA calculations (usually a combination of loans and grants) is covered with only grants through a special endowment (currently at $4 billion dollars) thus, leaving their students with not debt when they leave the school. (Unless of course they take supplemental loans while they are in school- but to part of their financial aid package is loans.) I won't be surprised if this doesn't become a trend as other high academic schools continue to compete for the best students AND as it becomes more and more apparent that their revenue is not a factor in the crazy rise in tuition aver the years.

Posted by: Coach Marty at February 01, 2016 05:43 AM (kNQlb)

Hide Comments | Add Comment




What colour is a green orange?




221kb generated in CPU 2.81, elapsed 2.6 seconds.
64 queries taking 1.9663 seconds, 501 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.