November 28, 2009

A Trillion here, a trillion there, pretty soon we're talking about real money. [krakatoa]
— Open Blog

h/t Hussein the Plumber, Cato Institute's Michael Cannon estimates the cost of ObabamaCare to be 6.5 Trillion dollars.

He comes to this by dispensing with the largest of the gimmicks being employed to keep the true cost hidden:

Offsetting the spending:

“When all this new spending occurs” — i.e., from 2014 through 2023 — “this bill will cost $2.5 trillion over that ten-year period.”

And adding in the cost of individual mandates:

"When the bills force somebody to pay $10,000 to the government, the Congressional Budget Office treats that as a tax. When the government then hands that $10,000 to private insurers, the CBO counts that as government spending. But when the bills achieve the exact same outcome by forcing somebody to pay $10,000 directly to a private insurance company, it appears nowhere in the official CBO cost estimates — neither as federal revenues nor federal spending."

Slightly on-topic observation: I'm predicting huge profits for those specializing in Unicorn-horn/rectal impaction.

Posted by: Open Blog at 09:11 AM | Comments (54)
Post contains 186 words, total size 1 kb.

1 I will honor those who post a college football thread.

Posted by: the bear at November 28, 2009 09:15 AM (PD1tk)

2 It's all gonna be useless paper anyway.

Posted by: Bill in Baltimore at November 28, 2009 09:16 AM (ffPAw)

3 Don't worry. As bureaucracy increases, costs go down. It's science. The same science that's behind: THE BARACK OBAMA DIET PLAN Lose those holiday calories now!

Posted by: naturalfake at November 28, 2009 09:18 AM (HylJ6)

4
What ? The Chinese are good for it.

Posted by: Barack Obama at November 28, 2009 09:21 AM (+FzLa)

5

Cato, or a guy over there, estimates $6Trillion.

This is what, the gross value of Africa?

 I estimate a major split in the Deomcratic House and Senate in May 2010.  WHo knows, Pelosi and Reid may even be deposed.  I'd like to tape the preceedings.

I predict a very Conservtive House and Senate starting 05 November 2010.

Posted by: Arbalest at November 28, 2009 09:22 AM (Ym9lj)

6 My estimate is 20 times what ever the CBO says.

Posted by: Vic at November 28, 2009 09:37 AM (CDUiN)

7 3 Don't worry.

As bureaucracy increases, costs go down.

Posted by: naturalfake at November 28, 2009 02:18 PM (HylJ6)

Yeah ... I love the arguments by the Dems that government runs operations more efficiently than the private sector (the old "30% overhead versus 1.5% overhead with government" argument - LOL - which would also bring up the question of, if government is so unbelievably efficient, how could any private business compete?). I am dumbfounded that no one has asked them explicitly why, if government is so much more efficient, they don't openly advocate the government taking over all industry - as they claim that it would make everything better and cheaper.

The left sets themselves up with their own stupidity and no one calls them on it. Very disappointing. I know that there are so many idiotic parts of the leftists' arguments to attack, but this one is the easiest and goes right to the constant babbling of The Precedent and the lunatic Washington junta. Get them to start advocating for outright socialism and fascism, as their arguments for health scare are all setting up exactly that point.

I am also disappointed that I've seen no mention, with all the talk of government run health care companies and the evil of profits, of the fact that Blue Cross companies are non-profits and they already hold over a third of the health insurance market. What argument do the boobs in Washington have as to why a government run company would be any "better" than your standard non-profit? Who knows? No one asks them.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 28, 2009 09:45 AM (A46hP)

8 What Vic said.

Posted by: Twinks at November 28, 2009 09:48 AM (LeFbD)

9 What PoP said.

Posted by: XBradTC at November 28, 2009 09:51 AM (y0E9v)

10 This is an obvious crisis.

We need meteors summoned. And bacon. And Carrie Prejean nekkid.

Posted by: SGT Dan at November 28, 2009 09:51 AM (aR5oH)

11 We need meteors summoned. And bacon. And Carrie Prejean nekkid. This is a fact.

Posted by: MRI at November 28, 2009 10:09 AM (aVQo/)

12 Vic will be closest without going over .

Posted by: Bob Barker at November 28, 2009 10:23 AM (vKdhq)

13 Don't worry, be happy.  Its all good.

Posted by: Robert Mugabe at November 28, 2009 10:41 AM (+OW0C)

14 Murmph peump dosh narf warf toodp goofh fur demph.

Posted by: Rep. Boxtox at November 28, 2009 10:48 AM (cBeTr)

15 I wonder if there is anyone on this blog who wants to run a story that the deficit, which last I saw was 12 trillion is actually 1.2% of a QUADRILLION dollars.
And it's under Obama's watch.
Quadrillion! The New Trillion! 

Posted by: Def Leppard at November 28, 2009 10:56 AM (hIOnV)

16 Someone should start a kneepad fund for Jason Weisberg @ Slate.

Posted by: Gran at November 28, 2009 10:56 AM (kmmbv)

17

I've been on record in these year ports for some time as betting the "trillion-a-year" bracket. It's just such a nice round number, I can't see it being any less.

After all, it's free

Posted by: comatus at November 28, 2009 10:59 AM (/VEEI)

18 Fuckers are trying to put us out of business.  When you value money buy the pound and a $100 bill gets the same scrutiny a penny gets today, we'll have a lot of problems selling product.

Posted by: The Counterfeiters at November 28, 2009 11:01 AM (+OW0C)

19 Vic will be closest without going over .

LOL, its all the evil Bush fault. At lest that is what the Dem advisor on Fox's Bulls and Bears said this morning.  Bush spent all the money on evil wars and that is what ran the deficit up.

I expected a full round of harrumph BS from the others but did not get it.

Posted by: Vic at November 28, 2009 11:04 AM (CDUiN)

20 BTW, that was on a discussion of a second round of "porkulous" because the first one hasn't worked.

Posted by: Vic at November 28, 2009 11:05 AM (CDUiN)

21 @19 - yeah, I love that argument!
Bush spent a trillion dollars on the war, so we're broke!
In light of that, let's spend a trillion on a stimulus plan that gets us nowhere, flirt with a SECOND stimulus plan, and then add 2-5 trillion more in healthcare!
Great idea!

Did you see the SNL skit where the Chinese Premier kept bending over to Obama? When even SNL can see you're a Democrat and your policies are a joke...

Posted by: Def Leppard at November 28, 2009 11:09 AM (hIOnV)

22 Also on that discussion was a proposed tax on stock market transactions to "pay down the deficit".

They also were going to sell a bridge in NYC. 

Posted by: Vic at November 28, 2009 11:10 AM (CDUiN)

23 Vic, surely they HAVE to know by now, looking at the polls, that people aren't falling for their game the way they did oh, six months ago. What the hell are the Democrats thinking? Is there some nefarious plan we haven't thought of yet or are they really going to be surprised when they get eviscerated at the polls come 2010?

Posted by: Def Leppard at November 28, 2009 11:13 AM (hIOnV)

24 Someone should start a kneepad fund for Jason Weisberg @ Slate.

I told him that acid on the green blotter paper was no good.  Fucker wouldn't listen to me.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 28, 2009 11:13 AM (+OW0C)

25 What the hell are the Democrats thinking?

Hubris, with a heavy dollop of delusional schizophrenia, and being more out of touch than our permanent Pluto moon base on Chiron will do this kinda shit to you.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 28, 2009 11:16 AM (+OW0C)

26 The numbers Obama quotes look right to me.

Posted by: cat with a sock on its head at November 28, 2009 11:18 AM (7+pP9)

27 I think they are continuing with the Big Lie technique all the way. It works for them in Chicago so they think it will work nationwide.

They are just teh stupid.

They are getting a lot of help from the media. That alone is probably worth at least 15 points at the pols.

Just think how it would be if the media wasn't in their pockets 100%.

Posted by: Vic at November 28, 2009 11:29 AM (CDUiN)

28  Jacob Weisberg, dammit ....and he swallows

Posted by: Frank G at November 28, 2009 11:29 AM (I+To0)

29 @24, Weisberg is no different than a very good friend of mine who is a RAGING Obama supporter. Get this - I pointed out the ONE's shortcomings and he comes back with:
Obama really is a Conservative. In fact, more Conservative than even me.
Obama really is against abortion.
Obama really did give us all tax breaks.
Obama really is doing a good job with the economy.
Obama really wants us to win in Afghanistan.
It's all Bush's fault.
Palin of course, is an idiot. And dangerous.

How, HOW I ask, do you argue with such rank stupidity?

Posted by: Def Leppard at November 28, 2009 11:31 AM (hIOnV)

30 Oops... my bad.  I plead not guilty by reason of terminal confusion caused by liberals' mental defects.

Posted by: Gran at November 28, 2009 11:32 AM (kmmbv)

31 I thought it was the brown acid that was uncool. At least it was in 1969.

http://tinyurl.com/nwrv93

Posted by: Vic at November 28, 2009 11:32 AM (CDUiN)

32

Of course, if this garbage passes, all "health workers" at every level will eventually unionize--which almost guarantees continual strikes for higher pay....which they WILL receive...and they will be paid for all the time they didn't work; meanwhile their services will have been outsourced to private contractors...

 

So let's double that estimate to 13T. 

 

We can't afford to just wait for 2010 or 2012--jam the Senate phone lines NOW, and keep jamming them!

 

 

Posted by: Stillwater at November 28, 2009 11:44 AM (qUdDE)

33 How, HOW I ask, do you argue with such rank stupidity?

You don't.  You maintain a safe distance in case he snaps...

Posted by: Ace's #1 Fan at November 28, 2009 12:16 PM (SHKl9)

34 A Trillion here, a trillion there, pretty soon we're talking about real money. ER UM: NO!

CUZ WE'RE A UM TALKING ONLY TALKING ABOUT DOLLARS!

THE OBAMA DOLLAR IS LIKE THE OLD LIRA.

WHEELBARROW ANYONE!?

Posted by: reliapundit at November 28, 2009 12:18 PM (UhYZh)

35 What's going to happen to the many billions of new taxes that are collected BEFORE Obamacare kicks in? 

How and where is this Obamacare revenue going to be saved?  Will it earn interest?

More likely, it is going to be spent (buying votes with IOUs) to be (supposedly) paid off by new revenue when Obamacare really kicks in around 2013 the IOU is needed to 'balance the budget'. 

Seems this means that Obamacare will cost twice as much in the years before it takes effect -- one time for the revenue that was supposed to go to Obamacare, and another time for the revenue (or deficits) to replace that which was spent buying votes in the meantime. 

Posted by: drfredc at November 28, 2009 12:42 PM (puRnk)

36 They've already issued the new currency to keep wheel barrowing to a minimum.

Posted by: JavaJoe at November 28, 2009 12:51 PM (Am6n/)

37 How, HOW I ask, do you argue with such rank stupidity?

I'd bottle it and sell it to our enemies as a new fruit drink.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 28, 2009 01:07 PM (Wg8cv)

38

He's not stupid, he's doing it on purpose.

Posted by: Cincinnatus at November 28, 2009 01:36 PM (f4sLg)

39

Someone call Jacob Weisberg ASAP.

I just took a huge crap he can worship.

Posted by: TexasJew at November 28, 2009 02:11 PM (l7Ql3)

40
"How, HOW I ask, do you argue with such rank stupidity?"

Def, you can't argue with stupidity. However, what you can do is expose it. If you argue with this person when other people are around, your goal is not to change the mind of the Obamanaut, but to sway the minds of the onlookers. It's for them that you have to keep your temper, use reasoned arguments, and counter myth and fiction with fact. In particular, when the Obamanaut insults you, and he certainly will, you have to smile and and answer calmly and factually. Your friend will not be convinced, but the bystanders may well be. And if it starts to get under your skin, just say to yourself, "2010! 2010! 2010!"

Posted by: Brown Line at November 28, 2009 02:19 PM (mKU6k)

41 Why Jacob Weisberg, I'm blushing!

Posted by: Linda Lovelace at November 28, 2009 02:23 PM (Vui52)

42 All I want to know is: WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP HAVING SEX WITH ME!

Posted by: The Chinese at November 28, 2009 02:25 PM (4X3d1)

43 "42 All I want to know is: WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP HAVING SEX WITH ME!

Posted by: The Chinese at November 28, 2009 07:25 PM (4X3d1)"

Posted by: curious at November 28, 2009 03:21 PM (p302b)

44 I'd be really worried about this if I didn't know that healthcare was going to be free under the Democrats' plan...

Posted by: Kensington at November 28, 2009 03:54 PM (BlBnA)

45 To get an idea just how much the money will inflate over the years, the Monopoly game should be played with REAL DOLLAR values as time progresses.  Eventually they will have to have a separate box for the money, or CREATE higher value bills.

Will the $1,000 bill come back?  There used to be one.

Posted by: Smorgasbord at November 28, 2009 04:21 PM (r26Fe)

Posted by: beijing massage at November 28, 2009 04:34 PM (buWws)

47 Forgive me, I haven't read this thread, but the whole premise of estimating the cost of deathcare, or any program that is not $???,???,??? per-year is absurd.   ITS THE PER-YEAR COST SINCE THESE PROGRAMS WILL GO ON FOREVER.  They are a permanent brake on the economy.

Posted by: ParisParamus at November 28, 2009 04:59 PM (zL+qc)

48 Oooh, $6 Trillion Dallar $tach!

Assumptions:

$6 Trillion Dallar $tach! = $ 6,000,000,000,000

1.0 Average Worker makes $40,000 per
   1.0 Work Year = $ 40,000

1.0 Average Worker put in 50 years to a Working Life
   1.0 Working Life = $ 2,000,000

1.0 Average Worker = 2.0 People
   1.0 People Year = $ 20,000
   1.0 People Life = $ 1,000,000

Population of the USA = 300,000,000 People

Analysis:

$6 Trillion Dallar $tach! / 1.0 People Life = 6,000,000 People

$6 Trillion Dallar $tach! / 1.0 People Year = 300,000,000 People

Conclusions:

It is equal to round up 6,000,000 People and take their lives.

It is equal to take everything everyone in the USA has for one year.

Editorial:

All else being equal, round up 6,000,000 People and take their lives and let this done with forever.



Posted by: Druid at November 28, 2009 05:06 PM (Gct7d)

49 All else being equal, round up 6,000,000 People and take their lives and let this done with forever.

But ya'll know they'll be back for a few more...

Posted by: Druid at November 28, 2009 05:07 PM (Gct7d)

50 ...they'll be back for a few more...

As they always do once the tax rate exceeds 100%.

Posted by: Druid at November 28, 2009 05:21 PM (Gct7d)

51

I am also disappointed that I've seen no mention, with all the talk of government run health care companies and the evil of profits, of the fact that Blue Cross companies are non-profits and they already hold over a third of the health insurance market. What argument do the boobs in Washington have as to why a government run company would be any "better" than your standard non-profit? Who knows? No one asks them.

Posted by: progressoverpeace

And they are the Cadillac plan targeted.

Posted by: Druid at November 28, 2009 05:28 PM (Gct7d)

52 BC/BS-FEP services a lot of Federal employees providing "Cadillac" plans the government is paying for.  I wonder if this thing is a backdoor ploy to slash Federal benefits to try and cut the budget?

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 28, 2009 08:59 PM (VvtZ1)

53 Cut the budget?

Hah, hah? Good one.

That being said...

Congress uses the same FEHB that the drones do.

If Congress is going to tinker with Fed benes - then look for them exempting themselves from FEHB and setting themselves up with a separate program.

Posted by: Druid at November 29, 2009 02:54 AM (Gct7d)

54 Two trillion $$ or six trillion $$, that's like arguing about the measured cubic volume of the flood surge that swamped New Orleans following Katrina. the Wicked Witch of the West Coast and her buddies are planning to flood us with federal debt to an  economy-breaking level. (Once again, the fallacy of Socialism is made manifest; the "equality" of all means everybody outside of the ruling elites can be "equally" poor and deprived.) The only thing that can save us from a lot of damage is to vote in enough Conservatives next November and in November 2012 to contain and then redirect the flood waters of debt before it swamps us. 
 

Posted by: exdem13 at November 29, 2009 06:20 AM (lYKj1)

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