1
The really sick thing is that Left will spin this trial a job-creator for New York.

2 and it will verge into the national security realism that, while mismanaged and badly represented over the previous eight years, came to be a defining mark of the Bush worldview.

As opposed to the screamingly apparent competence of the current administration. Right, buddy. Got Unicorn?®

3 Unfortunately, the jobs created will be in the disaster recovery sector.

4 The really sick thing is that Left will spin this trial a job-creator for New York.

Hey, as far as I'm concerned KSM is shovel-ready!

5

What annoyed me most about the snippet I saw on Fox News was that Holder said that one of the factors that went into the decision was "the probability of success".

 

KSM was ready to plead guilty in a military tribunal. How much more successful does he think a civilian trial can be?

 

6
Holder has good reason not to be afraid of KSM -- the Bush admin apprehended KSM and he's no longer a threat.

But Holder and Obama are fools for not fearing KSM's legions of followers who are roaming around freely. Holder and Obama are putting the rest of us, (those with no security detail), at great risk.

7 What goes unmentioned in the left's clamor to get these monsters up for their show trial is the terrible precedent this sets.

Not for terrorists, necessarily: but for regular Americans.

If the trials are shoo-in show trials (as I think everyone left and right sort of admits), then convictions legitimize whatever tactics were taken up until that point. Tactics that are entirely appropriate for illegal enemy combatants caught on the battlefield out of uniform, but not appropriate for American civilians caught with a stolen VCR. By trying them as American civilians, they legitimize military tactics against civilian defendants.

8

You're missing the point, Drew.

If you handle this in a criminal court, then -- even if he's acquitted -- you can later sue for damages in civil court.

9

KSM was ready to plead guilty in a military tribunal. How much more successful does he think a civilian trial can be?

Yeah, the successful prosecution of KSM is not what Obama and Holder have in mind. As Rush says, this trial is the prosecution of the United States, George Bush, and Western Civilization.

10 Posted by: FireHorse at November 18, 2009 12:07 PM (Vl5GH)

True but then it would take resources away from KSM that he could use to find the 'real terrorists'.

11 Cool , more face time for lawyers on TV.
Can the Obama justice dept. be any more awesome ?

12 Contact your elected representatives and raise all holy hell! I heard this morning the Republicans are circulating some legislation to stop this trial from happening. Let's beat Obama and Holder down. The American people are pissed about this!

13

This decision is already biting them in the ass. Today's Rasmussen Daily Presidential tracking poll has the O-hole at -14. http://tinyurl.com/5tnd2b

 

14 The fucking pussy ran off to Asia, specifically to avoid the heat over this travesty.

15 This is a complete and total joke. The President has already tainted the jury pool by declaring, "I am confident he will be found guilty.", add to that the fact other terrorists are still being tried in military trials. This is nothing but a political farce. Well that pretty much sums up everything this jackass does so why are any of us surprised?

16 Attack military personnel=military tribunal. Attack civilians=full blown trial with the same rights as a car thief and a witness stand from which to preach a little jihad. Gee, I wonder who the future targets of terror might be.

17 Imagine getting sat on the jury for this crap? What about the prosecutors safety when he goes home after the trial? What about the judge? How will KSM face his accusers other than calling on the stand CIA employees? This is beyond stupid, this is political and national suicide on TV.

18
You know who else Eric Holder isn't afraid of?

The CIA.

I'm just trying figure out how he's gonna juggle both cases without it being politically detrimental to Obama.

19 McCarthy was part of the prosecution of the 1993 WTC bombers.  I believe he knows his shit.

20 What annoyed me most about the snippet I saw on Fox News was that Holder said that one of the factors that went into the decision was "the probability of success".

What bothered me about it was when I turned on Fox to watch a little of it while eating lunch they did the lead in with Lindsey F'kn Graham, friend of the terrorist crapweasel.

I turned it off. The only Republicans Fox puts on with any regularity are Graham and McLame.  Can you say PR for the squishes?

21 Where do these Affirmative Action legal beagles come from for god's sake?

22

Everyone on the left seems to think there will not be a plan hatched once KSM and others are imprisoned in the HeartLand. One of the largest vistories for our enemies would be to spring one of these terrorists out of a maximum security prison. I'm glad there is no plans to keep them anywhere near me.

Everyone on the left also seems to think that by not doing this would make us hypocrites. I don't get it. Can somebody please explain that to me?

23 The fucking pussy ran off to Asia, specifically to avoid the heat over this travesty.

Brings up an interesting possibility--trial will be conducted sometime after O leaves office?

24
Will this be televised?

I know COURT TV is gone, but will cameras be allowed in the courtroom? Why do I suspect the Obama admin will try to televise this show trial for all the world to see?

25 Yes Mr. Holder, trying the blind sheik over the first world trade center bombing worked so well at preventing the next. So glad that those perpetrators of man made disasters got the message.

Thanks again FiftyTwo Percenters, you  fucking fucks.

26 So, to be clear, the Left is fine with trials when the AG and the President of the United States assure them that the "defendants" will be found guilty?

Nice precedent they're setting, I'll tell you what.

27 Meanwhile, terrorists who kill thousands in an act of war are afforded the full panoply of rights and protections as any US citizen who steals a car.

Not to mention: Presumption of Innocence.

28 The New Jersey and Virginia elections scared the hell out of the administration.  With "Cap-n-tax" and ObamaCare set to (G*d willing) die a merciful death in Congress and the "stimulus" already a proven failure they realize that they don't have anything to run on in 2010.

The only thing that's worked for them in the past has been to run against GW Bush- so enter the KSM Road Show soon to open for (at least) a full year "It's All Bush's Fault" orgy through the 2010 election cycle.

I used to think Goebbels would be proud of the BO administration, but now I'm not so sure- I'm sure he would be more discreet in his efforts to distract the public.

29

Just think, this whole debacle could have been prevented if we'd only executed that POS.

It is perfectly legal to do so.

30 Forget get all the bitching about Booosh!1!!.  Shit like this is what will erode the Rule of Law.  Do you know many precedents will be ignored in this farce?  How many statues will be bent? 

Who wants to be the judge or the appellate court that lets one of The Masterminds of 9/11 off the hook?

What happens to the case law?  5 years from now, does a defendant in Federal court have to worry what comes out of this trial?

31 D@mn sock puppet...

32

I am fucking sick of this shit:

"...the Obama administration will acknowledge this war, and it will verge into the national security realism that, while mismanaged and badly represented over the previous eight years, came to be a defining mark of the Bush worldview."

You know what you fucking asshole, it was the fucking media and the fucking Democrats that has passed that totally unjustified judgement on GWB, not the American people!

GWB apparently "bungled" a response to a type of attack that had never before confronted this country, with the "help" of an antagonistic media and a Democrat party that opportunistically jumped ship on him (and us) at the first setback, and yet he managed to stop attacks on us for 8 years.  Some bungler.

Hey Obama, when you learn to "bungle" as well as GWB, maybe you'll be worth more than a bucket of warm spit, but so far you show little promise of pulling it off, Genuflecter-in-Cheif!!

 

ps. FYBO

33

"Who wants to be the judge or the appellate court that lets one of The Masterminds of 9/11 off the hook?"

If you look at this from a legal standpoint they would pretty much have to let him off. Biased jury pool, the freakin President saying he is guilty and will be found guilty, waterboarding, not read his rights, ect ect. This decision can be summed up as Obama going full retard.

34 Well, we know that Lynn Stewart won't be able to represent KSM, though she may share a bunk with him!

35 And what happens if any of these cases get thrown out of court on some technicality, like there isn't any evidence other than heresay -- the terrorist walks out into the streets of NY?  or are they deported to where ever they got picked up? Returned to Gitmo?  Given a spot in Obama's Homeland Security? 

Iquiring minds want to know. 

36 30 Forget get all the bitching about Booosh!1!!.  Shit like this is what will erode the Rule of Law.  Do you know many precedents will be ignored in this farce?  How many statues will be bent? 

Who wants to be the judge or the appellate court that lets one of The Masterminds of 9/11 off the hook?

What happens to the case law?  5 years from now, does a defendant in Federal court have to worry what comes out of this trial?

Posted by: Techie at November 18, 2009 12:25 PM (wVPwI)

Excellent points all but, in the "judgment" of the administration, they all must be set aside in consideration of the ultimate goal- maintaining power.

And according to their political calculus they need a flashback appearance of the Bush/Cheney bogeyman to hold onto power- rule of law and national security be damned!

37 #28

There is a not-miniscule chance that this trial will end in an acquittal for KSM.

If that happens, that's a huge black eye for Obama.

38

In addition to the 10 detainees named Friday, Holder is expected to send others to trials and commissions in the United States.

Another, larger group of detainees is expected to be released to other countries. Some, the president has said, are too dangerous to be released and cannot be put on trial, and those detainees will continue to be imprisoned

i really don't understand this

why commissions for some,  they don't consider ksm dangerous?

39 I still can't get over the terrorist take away from all this: hit a soft civilian target and get a bullhorn and cushy federal court trial; hit a military target and get a secret commission at Gitmo.  Not a hard choice to make if you're AQ.

40 Holder says he is confident he can obtain a conviction. . .
I've heard that before.

41
I think this proves what we have known all along,Obama's law degree from Harvard is nothing more than a affirmative action certificate of participation.The guy doesn't know his as from a hole in the ground.

42

"Who wants to be the judge or the appellate court that lets one of The Masterminds of 9/11 off the hook?"

If you look at this from a legal standpoint they would pretty much have to let him off. Biased jury pool, the freakin President saying he is guilty and will be found guilty, waterboarding, not read his rights, ect ect.

Exactly, but do you think The Powers That Be will let that happen?  Holder and Obama have publicly promised and guaranteed a conviction.  If they can't deliver, God help us all.

43

Meanwhile, terrorists who kill thousands in an act of war are afforded the full panoply of rights and protections as any U.S. citizen who steals a car. 

The car thief stands a better chance getting a longer sentence if convicted, and a better chance of being convicted, than do KSM and friends.

I've had enough liberal pseudo-idealism, how about you?

44 WTF? "We will see to it that KSM is afforded the same Rule of Law as ...say, ahm, GM shareholders"-EHolder

45 How long is this show trial going to take?
I'd expect at LEAST a year, longer if either side wants to drag things out further.
That's a potentially long sideshow for the Obama administration to put on.

46 I heard the KSM and Co. have submitted their applications to the
New Black Panther Party and upon acceptance (them not being white and also down with the struggle) will have all charges dropped.
Then they will be released in either South Chicago or Detroit and issued "Ceremonial" nightsticks.
Problem solved.

47
convictions legitimize whatever tactics were taken up until that point. Tactics that are entirely appropriate for illegal enemy combatants caught on the battlefield out of uniform, but not appropriate for American civilians caught with a stolen VCR at a Tea Party Protest

ftfy

If you think they aren't going to justify show-trials against internal dissidents, you must believe in skittles-shitting unicorns.

48 Hay, WAIT.  Obama and everyone in his administration is saying that these guys are guilty.   No if's, and's or but's.  Everybody, well almost everybody is some kind of Liberal in NY. Now can he get a fair trial in NY.... Heh,heh,heh.

49 If that happens, that's a huge black eye for Obama.

I'm not sure an acquittal hurts his standing with anyone who doesn't already despise him.

50 No, the Obama Administration has every incentive to make this one swift.  Would you want to go into the mid-term elections still having failed to obtain a "conviction" for one of the Great Terrorists of our age?

51 Senator Blowhard: "Mr Holdem, based on your testimony here today, are you fucking high?".

52 Can we start talking about impeachment now?

53 Evidently Republicans on this committee don't give a damn.

This hearing is a big ZERO.

54 Also, if Khalid Sheikh Muhammed is convicted and given the death penalty, how long will he rot on Death Row? What's the average stay, 17 years or something?

55

I'm not really certain here which would be scarier:  letting KSM walk due to tainted evidence or other technicalities, or being convicted and sentenced in spite of the tainted evidence and other technicalities.

Unless they can drag it out past 2012, which maybe they are planning on, if the POS gets off then Obam'ter and the Dems are done for at least a generation.  If he gets convicted, I think it only proves it was a kangaroo court show trial to begin with.  Either way, these "smart" people in charge are taking one helluva risk, with little upside for reward.

56 It makes no sense, but then I ask myself:  Is Obama stupid enough to risk this all for a chance to have one of the most Hated (with a capital H) men in the world badmouth and whine about George W. Bush and Dick Cheney while in the dock?

The answer is, of course, yes.

57 #53 I hope that's not true. I emailed Kit Bond yesterday asking him when we can expect his apology for voting to confirm Holder.

58

(holding nose)  Order in the court!  Please remove the defendant immediately, shave, and bathe him for chrissakes!

59

Separately, a member of the Judiciary committee, Democrat Charles Schumer of New York, is urging the administration to reimburse the city for what he says could be $75 million in extra security costs related to the terror trials.

Breitbart

60 If the defense is granted a change of venue, I hope they move the trial to San Francisco, right in Nancy's backyard.

61 50 No, the Obama Administration has every incentive to make this one swift.  Would you want to go into the mid-term elections still having failed to obtain a "conviction" for one of the Great Terrorists of our age?

Posted by: Techie at November 18, 2009 12:39 PM (wVPwI)

That would be true if one of the Great Terrorists of our age was on trial.  In reality, thanks to the assistance of the media, GWB, Dick Cheney, the CIA, FBI, and the entire US intelligence community will be on trial- allowing the administration to dredge up all the old worn out "failed policy of the previous administration" rhetoric which is what they need to energize the young voters who stayed home in NJ and Virginia two weeks ago.

62 #49

Obviously there are individuals who are in the tank for Obama, and whose opinion will never change no matter what he does.

But I think if the "mastermind" of 9-11 walks, there is going to be a LOT of anger at the Nobel-Peace prize-winning administration.

Even if it doesn't cause his supporters to drop him, a KSM acquittal will definitely energize his opponents.

63 I hope the prick walks. I really do. I hope he sues for pain/suffering and buys one of Trumps biggest condos, overlooking the hole he made. Hopefully he'll crap out the window every day. NY'ers are all about the forgiveness (barry and KSM) shit, even when it isn't asked for. Tan up KSM, the souther poverty law center is about to make you rich.

64 Is the NYC Visitors Bureau kapish with this decision? I won't be traveling there during the trial.

65 I predict they drag this out, and it doesn't go to actual trial before the 2012 elections. 

If Obama is re-elected, the trial proceeds apace - because it's outcome doesn't matter politically to him anymore.  If he's defeated, he happily hands one more unfinished huge shit sandwich he made to the incoming Republican.

66 Folks, the real reason for the decision to use the civilian court instead of a military forum is the left's persistent goal of devaluing the military in general in relation to the civilian in general. This goes all the way back to the Vietnam War. The military is the least left-dominated institution in our society, so it is in the left's interest that it be discredited.

67 All KSM's lawyers have to do is get a couple of Muslims on the jury - instant hung jury = aquittal.  No Muslim is going to vote to convict, but plenty will do their best to intimidate the other jurors into letting him off.  Plus, there will be plenty of opportunities to threaten the judge, prosecutors, etc;  Once this circus gets started the international left will say "the poor fellow was tortured, there is no real proof he did anything, let him go." And you can be sure Obama will let him go. 

68 "You know, a ri-yot iss an ugly ting, but I tink it's chust about time ve had vun!!"

69

pam

I'm afraid Republicans might see a public trial as a gold plated club to beat Democrats with in the coming years and thus may not fight this wholeheartedly

70

Sofa King and Carpet Demon

 took shelter from the rain.

When Master Bait

showed up late,

he left them with a stain.

71

Many people will probably want to think twice about attending the New Year's Eve celebration in Times Square.  I know I wouldn't.

72

If he's defeated, he happily hands one more unfinished huge shit sandwich he made to the incoming Republican.
FreakyBoy at November 18, 2009 12:46 PM

Hell, I don't think barry could survive a primary race with David Duke or Perez Hilton

73 #69 That's the only upside to the trial moving forward that I've heard mentioned. It's something I guess. Thanks.

74

1. Holder gets out there with Obama and say they know KSM is guilty----Mistrial much?

2. We try them in civilian courts if they attack civilians (KSM-WTC) and military courts if they attack the military (Cole bombers) (just forget about the Pentagon) and that tells the terrorists what?    Attack civilians on american soil...you got it.

75 When,  not if, KSM and his terrorists friends are released in NYC by a democrat/liberal judge will the inept Holder fall on his own sword/hang himself (in shame) or will a survivor/family member of 9-11 have to take him and his family out.

76 50 No, the Obama Administration has every incentive to make this one swift.  Would you want to go into the mid-term elections still having failed to obtain a "conviction" for one of the Great Terrorists of our age?

First of all, its not up to the Obama administration.  KSM's lawyers and the judge in question will have a say too.   If KSM wants to drag this out he well may get that chance.

Also, if Obama were primarily interested in making this "swift" he could have allowed KSM to plead guilty as he attempted to do last year.

77 Frankly, as long they announce it beforehand, I would prefer the federal court let the bastards walk. I'm sure the NYCPD and NYCFD will have a group of greeters present when they step foot out the courthouse.

78 In a civilian trial, America will see KSM for the coward that he is..
Wasn't it Holder that called American's cowards? So,  in his twisted logic, he equates all Americans with KSM. Nice.

79

How's that voting Dem all the time working out for you New Yorkers?  Hmmmm?

Tell you what - elect one single fucking Donkey in 2010, and my reservior of sympathy for you stupid pricks goes bone-dry... capice'?

80

I thought one of them said that if he isn't convicted they still won't let him go. So what's the point?

Where do these asswipes get the idea that foreigners get the protection of the US constitution?

Does the loony left think we had sheep herder's children locked up and undergoing torture at Gitmo? What's all the sympathy for? Just US hating?

81 I am sick and tired of hearing Holder call KSM a coward. What the hell makes KSM a coward? Vicious, psycho, violent, etc. yes. Coward not so much.

82 77 Frankly, as long they announce it beforehand, I would prefer the federal court let the bastards walk.

I'm sure the NYCPD and NYCFD will have a group of greeters present when they step foot out the courthouse.

Posted by: Dave at November 18, 2009 12:54 PM (Xm1aB)

Along with high-potency pheremone spray, a prize boar hog, and a camcorder.

For starters...

Definite U-tube moment...

83

this will not end well

 

the AG and the Present are already on record as guaranteeing convictions- I'm sure KSM's lawyer's first motion will be for for dismissal

84 Who wants to be the judge or the appellate court that lets one of The Masterminds of 9/11 off the hook?"

Lifetime appointments makes one a little safer in following your ideological bent, no matter how stupid it may seem to everyone else. E.G., the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

85 #81
Maybe Holder means the term "coward" as a compliment, considering that he called the USA a country of cowards.

#80
You do have to wonder what exactly the Holder "backup plan" is, assuming that KSM is acquitted (which again, is entirely possible).

If they don't intend to let him go, then where are they going to put him?   The new Guantanamo?  If they aren't going to release him after a "not-guilty" verdict, then when will they EVER release him?

86

How's that voting Dem all the time working out for you New Yorkers?  Hmmmm?

Tell you what - elect one single fucking Donkey in 2010, and my reservior of sympathy for you stupid pricks goes bone-dry...

I was born and lived in downstate NY for years. We still have many friends and family that exist there. It's hopeless. Believe me on this one.

87 Oh, have no doubt, there are federal judges with lifetime gigs who wouldn't hesitate to walk these killers if the judge thought it would blacken George W.'s eye. No doubt about it.

88 Attack military personnel=military tribunal.

Attack civilians=full blown trial with the same rights as a car thief and a witness stand from which to preach a little jihad.

Gee, I wonder who the future targets of terror might be.

Posted by: Dave at November 18, 2009 12:16 PM (Xm1aB)

Attack a Kindergarten = Time out.

89

Should the Pearl Harbor attackers have been afforded America rights,
American lawyers, American legal protections and American criminal court trials?

If not, what is ther difference.  

90 The jury pool is going to consist of people that still can't figure out what to do with that hole in midtown? Wasn't the last design, under Pataki, shaped like an Islamic Cresent?

91 89

Should the Pearl Harbor attackers have been afforded America rights,
American lawyers, American legal protections and American criminal court trials?

If not, what is ther difference.  

Posted by: gus at November 18, 2009 01:04 PM (Vqruj)

The only explanation I can come up with is that they started dumping massive doses of Stupid Serum into the drinking water in about 1963.

92   The Pearl Harbor attackers were uniformed members of the armed forces of a hostile nation.  Had they been captured after being shot down, they'd have been POWs and afforded the proscribed treatment.

93 #83 the AG and the Present are already on record as guaranteeing convictions- I'm sure KSM's lawyer's first motion will be for for dismissal

They'll ask for a dismissal, but won't get it.

Their #2 motion will be to have the trial taken out of NYC, arguing that the jury pool in New York is tainted because of 9-11.

There is going to be a HUGE fight pre-trial in this case around evidence.   Team KSM is going to try to get ALL of it (much of it classified), and try to use it to embarrass the gov't.  Then Team KSM is going to get as much of it as possible knocked out, claiming it was obtained illegally, under duress from waterboarding, etc.  This discovery fighting will probably drag on for months, with each side appealing and counter-appealing any decision on critical evidence.

94 I don't care if we have the votes or not. The congressional GOP should develop articles of impeachment alleging, to start, that Obama's administration is, instead of protecting Americans, actively endangering them by 1) transferring Gitmo detainees into the U.S., and 2) holding the KSM trial in NYC. Let's roll!

95

Attack a Kindergarten = Time out.

Attack a Christian Church = Red carpet treatment at any given Hollywood awards ceremony

96
Rush is reading this thread, apparently.  This case is going to get thrown out, and Wee Wee seems to be working towards that end.

97 Military tribunals are for Obama administration leakers

98 #96 Why? What's up?

99
@Dave

He started this segment with Dagny's #74 almost word for word.

100 97 Military tribunals are for Obama administration leakers

Posted by: wHodat at November 18, 2009 01:11 PM (+sBB4)

...and CIA interrogators.

101

Doesn't the defence get to choose the jury?  I imagine they can find twelve Muslims without problem.    There's an aquittal right there.

 

102 All it takes is one, single muslim on the jury to prevent a conviction. That's it, just one. Or a terrorist sympathizer.

103 94 I don't care if we have the votes or not.

The congressional GOP should develop articles of impeachment alleging, to start, that Obama's administration is, instead of protecting Americans, actively endangering them by 1) transferring Gitmo detainees into the U.S., and 2) holding the KSM trial in NYC.

Let's roll!

^^  This!

104 84.
The question about judges and prosecutors wasn't about their professional careers.
It was a about their show-biz careers, when they and their families show up on Youtube being beheaded.

105 Yeah, you think a juror or two might be concerned about getting the Daniel Pearl treatment if they vote to convict?

106 If the glove does not fit, you must acquit!  I can see it now.  Victory for Allah.....

107

>All it takes is one, single muslim on the jury to prevent a conviction.

That's it, just one. Or a terrorist sympathizer.

 

 

or a Truther

or a Bush hater

or a Kos kid

a DUer

a Huffposter

etc etc etc

108 Headline parody: Crime! Declared on al Qaeda: http://tinyurl.com/ydwfczh

109 Several have mentioned that it will only take one Muslim on the jury to get it hung. Look at it from the other direction - if there isn't one (or more) on the jury his lawyers will be screaming mistrial for discrimination.

110 Oh, Good lord, I hadn't thought of that.

One Truther could cause KSM to walk.

111 21 Where do these Affirmative Action legal beagles come from for god's sake?

Posted by: kansas at November 18, 2009 12:18 PM (mka2b)

The bottom of the barrel - the same place The Precedent is from. And we are really scraping it, now.

112 The Supreme Court has ruled that you may not strike jurors based on their race or gender. What about religion? If I'm a prosecutor in this case, I'm striking every muslim I can. Is this legal?

113 Rush seems to think that the testimony will set Bush/Cheney up to get a indictment for war crimes in an international court and that's the point.

114 One liberal will cause KSM to walk.

hmmm... Now where would they find a liberal in NYC?....

115 It's simple:

Obama's mission is to weaken the US. Everything about it, everything that makes it exceptional, everything that makes it the greatest, most successful human experiment ever. He and his handlers want all that gone.

This fucktarded farce of a trial makes things worse any way you slice it. That's not a bug, it's a feature.

He's not stupid, and he's not misguided. He's a thriller-novel anti-American bad guy who won the Presidency.

Yeah. . .it actually happened.

116
the testimony will set Bush/Cheney up to get a indictment for war crimes in an international court and that's the point.

That, and every CIA and SF operator we had in-theater.  This is all about justifying 9/11 and putting the U.S. on trial.

117
He's not stupid, and he's not misguided. He's a thriller-novel anti-American bad guy who won the Presidency.

Yeah. . .it actually happened.

Yup.

118

Techie, how is that different?  Are you suggesting that Japanese who WERE wearing uniforms should be treated worse than Muzztards who weren't?

Those who do not wear uniforms are customarily executed summarily.

119 #113 Whose testimony? The terrorists'? Who cares? And any American agent who thinks he might be prosecuted for "torture" or whatever will claim the 5th. Gosh, I wish I could listen to Rush today.

120

Terrorists on trial:

Miami (AP) A Miami man convicted of plotting to destroy Chicago's Sears Tower and bomb FBI offices has been sentenced to six years in federal prison.

U.S. District Judge Joan Lenard imposed the sentence Wednesday on 24-year-old Burson Augustin.

Prosecutors sought the maximum 30-year sentence for Augustin. Lenard ruled that sentencing terrorism enhancements should not apply to Augustin, who was not the leader.

The men were convicted in May of supporting Al-Qaida, conspiring to wage war on the U.S. and other charges. There were two mistrials, and two other men were acquitted. All denied plotting terror attacks.

121 112 The Supreme Court has ruled that you may not strike jurors based on their race or gender.

What about religion? If I'm a prosecutor in this case, I'm striking every muslim I can.

Is this legal?

Posted by: Dave at November 18, 2009 01:22 PM (Xm1aB)

No. They can't reject a juror just for religion - especially seeing how the feral government (and others) have just gone out of their way to claim that screaming, "Allahu akhbar!" before spraying unarmed people with bullets serves no indication of any ties to jihadism ... but, given that just about everyone in New York was there for 9/11, it would be immensely easy to ask some questions that would show bias and, thus, reject whatever jurors they want "for cause".

The problem, of course, is that we would normally think that the prosecuting attorney would be the one looking to strike muslims, liberals, and other terrorist sympathizers from the jury, but the sad fact is that the prosecuting attorney and the whole of the feral government's executive branch ARE terrorist sympathizers (and worse, even) and they are going to be the ones happy to stack the jury with muslims and terror lovers. Holder will explain it by saying that he is not scared of having 6 muslims on the jury.

The only solution this nation has is to forcibly eject The Precedent, Holder, and the whole fetid administration - to then prosecute all of them for treason and various other crimes against the nation. Barring that ... we are just f#cked. Look forward to a split in the nation, because that is the only light left at the end of this tunnel of stupidity and America-hate and the only way to preserve the American creed.

122 Jon Kyle said KSM has already plead guilty and is seeking the death penalty in a military tribunal.  How could he be "more likely" to get death penalty in NYC?

123 "How could you be more likely to get a conviction in a civilian court than in a military court when Khalid Sheik Mohammad has already pled guilty and asked for the death penalty before a military commission?"

- Jon Kyle

124 Yeah. . .it actually happened.

Posted by: tachyonshuggy at November 18, 2009 01:26 PM (yUybe)

Yep, it did.

I would just disagree with you on one part - The Precedent is stupid. He's just lucky that any fool can destroy a complex system, especially one that has been put on the very edge of destruction as the monetary crisis has done to us. It wouldn't be tough for a 12 year old to run an aircraft carrier aground, if you gave him the helm, especially if he wanted to and if he staffed the ship with the same sort of useful idiots who populate the feral government - people who think that grounded aircraft carriers are better because you don't have to worry about navigating them and all that difficult stuff.

125
Has anyone mention AG Holder is a c*cksucker yet?  Cuz he really, really is, you know.

126 I hope this is the end, my heart can't take the destruction of America any longer...Obama suck scock

127 Holder is a snake.

128 Only in NYC would useful idiots put a rapist next door to the victim then pride themselves about how they show the world their compassion.

I feel violated and raped all over again; I cannot wait to get the hell out of this miserable freak show called NYC.

Mayor Mommy-Nanny could have said NO but he cares more about protecting rapists than he does for those who have been raped.

Dear NYC FREAKS-

I lived here for 20 years, paid a shit-load of taxes, put up with endless lairs wearing smiley-faces and when I leave my only wish to you is may you forever rot away in your own freak show sewer.

Sincerely
a former brain-dead liberal whose veil of provincial myopia slipped away while  watching the WTC crumble into ash on 9-11-2001.

129 Look, the fact of the matter is that a growing portion of America is not going to stand much longer Obama's constant attack on our freedoms, and security. Impeachment needs to be on the table, now!

130 If I capture someone in Afghanistan, do I read him his rights?

131

The AG going on record presuming guilt is not a big deal,isn't every prosecutor confident the defendant is guilty?It's the president coming out with the presumption of guilt that is absolutely mind boggling

132 This is so totally insane, we need to investigate Holder's Black Muslim connections.

133 I'm afraid I don't follow you, gus.

Should the Pearl Harbor attackers have been afforded America rights,
American lawyers, American legal protections and American criminal court trials?

If not, what is ther difference.  

The Pearl Harbor attackers were the Japanese Navy.  I fail to see how they are equivalent to Al Queda.  You can't and don't put POWs on trail.  It'd be idiotic.

Whom you DO put on trail are spies and saboteurs.

134

So, if they let this piece of shit go, where would they release him? Pakistan?

And what is going to stop KSM from trying to represent himself using the courtroom as his personal soap box to recite the Koran?

135 I can see the headline now:

"KSM acquitted of terrorism charges; convicted of contempt of court"

136

This sets so much bad precedent on so many levels; all of them stated above.  This could change the ROE in such a way as to make the prosecution of the war more dangerous and less successful for our military.  This puts the conviction of terrorists within question, which is utter bs.  This puts the civilian population at risk (intimidating/influencing the jury/jusry pool perhaps? yeah, I think so).  It sets the precedent for using military tactics on ordinary American civilians -- this is a biggie to me.  The list goes on and on.

This isn't about prosecuting terrorists; this is about trying to set precedent for future control of the populace.  And it's a nasty piece of work all around.

137 If they let KSM go, they will have to put Holder and Obama in Witness Protection.

138 @130, after discharging your clip into his chest.

139 Here's the thing, this violates the precious Geneva conventions.

All of that international crap that the Left loves is being stood on its head.

If KSM is a soldier, then he is a POW and we can hold him until the end of hostilities but we cannot interrogate him in any serious way.

If KSM is a terrorist waging war on the US, then he is treated as either a pirate or a spy.

If KSM is a civilian with legal residence in the US, then he is a criminal subject to the US justice system.

But there is nothing in international law or even US law that allows us to kidnap someone from another country, bring him to the US for a civilian trial and put him in a civilian jail.

I am surprised the Left is still defending this.  There must be some lefty (Hitchens?) for whom this stinks.  We are seeing the moral preening of the Left laid bare.

140 There's exactly one question that can even conceivably be adjudicated in civilian courts: "Are you a member of AQ?"

If you're trying guys with "exceptions to the normal rules", like habeus corpus, Miranda, etc - then you're diluting those self-same protections for the rest of us. "He's a terrorist, we can skimp on..." There have been a couple of crazies that have been charged under "terrorism" laws when more ordinary charges would have applied previous to 2001.

Add this to the freaking insanity of Janet's predilection of feeling tea parties are terrorists - or at least terrorist sympathizers.

This entire approach is fraught from start to finish.

And that's ignoring "What do you do with an openly avowed AQ member that simply shoots a serviceman in a combat zone?"

You aren't going to get convictions for "murder" on a regular basis. Essentially because "defending the homeland" is a pretty reasonable application of self-defense. We don't actually -see- this very often as we haven't historically crossed civilian and war courts very much. But avoiding this crossing is actually the central tenet of the origins of the original freaking Geneva Convention.

141 I can see a lot of prisoners in the future being shot trying to escape before our soldiers can get them back to base.

142 Let's see, McCarthy prosecuted terrorists while Holder approved their pardons for political purposes and made his money with a white shoe firm that worked on their behalf "pro bono" ie. pro-ME retainers.  The latter, obviously, has much more credibility on the issue.  

143

Amal Abusumayah was paying for groceries at the Jewel store at 17117 S. Harlem Ave. in Tinley Park on Nov. 7 when she felt a sharp tug on her headscarf. When she looked at who had pulled her hijab, she saw a woman who moments before had made a derogatory comment about Islam.

On Wednesday, Tinley Park police announced that Valerie Kenney, 54, has been charged with a hate crime, a felony that carries a possible sentence of up to three years in prison and a fine of up to $25,000.

"I was shaken up," Abusumayah told the SouthtownStar about the Nov. 7 assault. "This is my dignity and this is my religion."

Ahmed Rehab of the Chicago chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations said his organization has reached out to the FBI to pursue federal charges.

I see. Killing 13 people while shouting Allah Akbar is nothing more than a stress related incident and tugging on a scarf is a case for the FBI.

144 41
I think this proves what we have known all along,Obama's law degree from Harvard is nothing more than a affirmative action certificate of participation.The guy doesn't know his as from a hole in the ground.

Posted by: bulwark at November 18, 2009 12:35 PM (jvrmc)

Look: an Ivy League law degree either means (1) you scored great on the LSAT or (2) you are eligible for affirmative action.

That's it.  Once you're in, there's no failure.  None at all.  Yale doesn't have grades, FGS.  When you're accepted, they print your diploma.

This is also the approach we get when lawyers run our system.  There are some good lawyers, but they don't think like lawyers.  Look at Lindsay Graham.  He's a lawyer, so he approaches all problems this way, that the justice system is the answer to all of life's problems.

145 I've been a proponent for years of making NYC a state, and to cut them off from Upstate.

146 Transparently the purpose of the "Show Trial" is to allow KSM to serve Obama & Eric Holder's agenda with attacks on Bush's handling of terrorists while preventing Bush/Cheney from defending themselves because that defense, of policies still in effect, will be up to Eric Holder.

147 Posted by: DANEgerus at November 18, 2009 03:58 PM (LMi2C)

Yes. The important part for people to remember is that the prosecution is working for the defense, and both are working against America. What we have is a "hostile prosecutor". Of course, most of us knew this when Holder was up for confirmation. All of the GOP slime who voted to confirm that dirtball should be tossed out and shunned, relegated to living on the streets where they belong, the scumbags.

148 I've been a proponent for years of making NYC a state, and to cut them off from Upstate.

What, and give them two more liberal Senators?

149 I'm a recent proponent of making Texas a nation...again.

150

Holder: "I am not scared of KSM." 

How convienient, especially when you weren't the one who put yourself in harm's way to get the bastard. That was done by the CIA, the very agency you want to vicariously put on trial.

Suckwad.

151

 We already know all about what kind of animal KSM is, thanks to the exrtraordinary information that has come out in the military proceedings and the CIA interrogations.

Would these be the same CIA interrogations the current regime insists didn't uncover any relevant information? The ones Cheney said worked and Douchebag said didn't? None of that information would be admissible in a real court because he was under duress. This guy should be tried by a military tribunal and then hung. We did the same things to Germans in the same city in WW2. I had to laugh the other night because Bob Beckel on Hannity asked what would you do if Germans sabatoged something and Hannity gave him a pass on it. We already have precedent for this type of action. This guy was caught on a battlefield in civilian clothes. The Geneva Convention is very clear about what rights this murderer has. NONE! 

152 It'd be nice if the Ivy Leaguers would just admit they view The Law as a toy, and means of totalitarian control. Justice has little to do with it in their hands.

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